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bcir instead of j pouch??

Posted by warrior, on Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:37 am

 

Looking for people with this procedure or contemplating it...

 

read here from someone highly recommending this procedure for ostomates in lieu of j pouch. And having the bag..

Can't recall the thread or person posting it. Mentioned a,surgeon in Florida who specializes in it...i dont understand the mechanics involved in this procedure but if its something to get rid of this bag, then I'm all for it.

I'm sure its some kind of loop pouch made out of small intestine. I no longer have large intestine. Do have rectum intact. But as you know, its just a tube like organ sewed up at one end inside and the anus opening..

pros and cons from people who have this bcir will greatly help in decision making..

 

this thread I,saw recently.     was from 2013 with no follow up afterwards. I hope to find it again but like most here they move on and forget to come back...

 

so what do you know about bcir? Any regrets? Did it meet your expectations? You need a catheter? Do drain it??

Reply by warrior, on Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:59 am

ok..just Google's the bcir. Now I know what's involved. Ick! An internal bag accessible with a,catheter...how lovely to walk around with this cath in your back pocket. Just think if u ran out gasoline, you are prepared! Instant siphon hose!

other thing I saw was the number of times during day needed to drain. WHAAAAT!!!???

now its all about liquid waste which is produced from small intestine..well suppose u have solid waste? Will u need to call rotor router for a snake?

they do house calls!

judging by how the small intestine has a mind of its own and there is no muscle to contract the waste, how in the world do you  prevent waste accidents and exit? I saw there is a valve.. Really??...so this may give new meaning to a valve job later on? Judging by what I read so far, its natural to be,sarcastic, no?..thanks in advance, Warrior..

ps..anyone selling the Brooklyn bridge?

Reply by Pirrip, on Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:31 am
warrior wrote:

ok..just Google's the bcir. Now I know what's involved. Ick! An internal bag accessible with a,catheter...how lovely to walk around with this cath in your back pocket. Just think if u ran out gasoline, you are prepared! Instant siphon hose!

other thing I saw was the number of times during day needed to drain. WHAAAAT!!!???

now its all about liquid waste which is produced from small intestine..well suppose u have solid waste? Will u need to call rotor router for a snake?

they do house calls!

judging by how the small intestine has a mind of its own and there is no muscle to contract the waste, how in the world do you  prevent waste accidents and exit? I saw there is a valve.. Really??...so this may give new meaning to a valve job later on? Judging by what I read so far, its natural to be,sarcastic, no?..thanks in advance, Warrior..

ps..anyone selling the Brooklyn bridge?


taking offers for the bridge.....

Reply by Bill, on Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:10 am

I tend to agree with warrior's second post. However, for those of you who don't know what the Barnett Continent Intestinal Reservoir (BCIR) procedure is, I have copied an article from Google (below)  for your entertainment/education:

 

An ostomy is created when a person has part or all of their large intestine (colon and rectum) removed due to disease or injury. Without a colon and rectum, a different way for stool to leave the body must be created. In a traditional ostomy, an opening is made in the abdomen and a small piece of the intestine is exposed (which is called a stoma) so that stool can leave the body.
An appliance (usually a bag or a pouch) is worn over the stoma to collect the stool and it's emptied manually several times a day. A Barnett Continent Intestinal Reservoir (BCIR) is a type of ostomy that is internal, so there is no external appliance worn on the abdomen. The stool is emptied out of the internal reservoir by inserting a catheter into the stoma several times a day.
The surgery has gone through several changes since it was first described in the 1960s (as the Kock pouch).
Candidates for BCIR
Some of the conditions that might lead to colectomy surgery (removal of the colon and/or rectum) include ulcerative colitis, Crohn’s disease, other forms of inflammatory bowel disease, and familial adenomatous polyposis (FAP). A traditional ileostomy, called a Brooke or an end ileostomy, is the surgery that is usually done after the removal of the colon and/or the rectum.
In some cases, such as where there is disease in the area around the anus (perianal disease), the anal sphincter might also be removed during another surgery. Since every patient and every circumstance is different, there are several different types of surgeries that might be used as a treatment. Some of these are the traditional ileostomy, an ileal pouch-anal anastomosis (IPAA, or j-pouch), or an ileoanal anastomosis (pull-through).
For some people, a traditional ileostomy might not fit their lifestyle. In other situations, the anal sphincter might need to be removed or it might not be healthy enough to hold stool, so making an internal reservoir and connecting it to the anus (which is what is done in the j-pouch and pull-through procedures) wouldn’t work well.
A failed j-pouch, which can occur for a variety of reasons, including repeated pouchitis, cuffitis, irritable pouch syndrome, or poor continence, is another reason patients may consider a BCIR.
The BCIR uses an internal reservoir, but it is emptied through the abdomen instead of through the anus.
Therefore, in the cases described, a BCIR may be considered.
Risks and Contraindications
There are some conditions for which the BCIR would not be considered a treatment option and some patients who might not fare well with the procedure.
• Colostomy: A colostomy, which is when only part of the large intestine is removed through surgery, cannot be converted to a BCIR.
• Crohn’s Disease: Those with this form of inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) are not considered candidates for the BCIR because of the potential for recurrence of the disease.
• Obesity: Having abdominal fat may increase the risk of a complication where the valve of the BCIR might slip out of place.
• Adaptive Needs or Intellectual Disabilities: Certain types of disability may make intubation or care of the BCIR challenging and therefore it may not be a good fit for these patients.
• Short Bowel Syndrome: A certain length of small bowel is needed to create the BCIR, and those who already have a shortened length of bowel because of surgeries may not be a candidate for this surgery.
Complications that tend to occur soon after surgery include bleeding, leakage, perforation, or necrosis (tissue death) in the valve. According to a review of continent ostomy procedures, other complications that can occur as the pouch matures include valve slippage, prolapse, fistulas, volvulus, perforation hernia, valve stenosis, or pouchitis.
What Causes Short Bowel Syndrome?
How the BCIR Is Done
The BCIR procedure is not done as often as other procedures such as the Brooke ileostomy and the j-pouch. There are only a few locations in the country where this surgery is actually offered. A BCIR is complicated to construct and therefore is performed by surgeons who are specialized in the procedure. The actual surgery done to create the BCIR will vary a bit based on any previous surgery a patient has had.
For patients who have not had any previous bowel surgery, a colectomy (removal of the colon and rectum) will be performed during the BCIR.
If there is already an ileostomy or another type of internal reservoir in place, it will be “taken down,” meaning that the stoma for the ileostomy or the j-pouch will be removed or revised in order to create the BCIR. In some cases, the part of the small intestine used to create the j-pouch (which is the terminal ileum) might be reused to create the BCIR.
Placing the BCIR involves creating the internal pouch as well as the “valve" and “collar." The internal pouch will be created out of about two feet of the small intestine. The collar and the valve are also put in place and attached to the abdomen to avoid having the valve slip out of place and causing a complication.
Aftercare
Many people who receive this procedure travel in order to have it done, so hospital stays may be longer than with other types of internal pouches or an ileostomy. This is to allow for the healing of the BCIR and also to adjust to the intubation process. The hospital stay could be as short as seven days or as long as three to four weeks before being allowed to travel home.
After returning home, patients will have a need to carry a tube with them in order to empty the pouch when necessary. Emptying the pouch is called intubation. Intubation tubes can be ordered from medical supply sites.
A common complication with an internal pouch is pouchitis, which is an inflammation in the pouch that causes diarrhea, discomfort, and in some cases, bleeding. In most cases, this is a complication that can be managed at home with antibiotic treatment. Pouchitis usually starts to resolve within a few days of starting antibiotic treatment but for some patients, it can be recurrent.
Emptying a BCIR
During the BCIR surgery, a stoma is created on the abdomen, which is called an elliptical or a buttonhole stoma. It is flush against the skin, instead of projecting out like a stoma that’s created during a traditional ileostomy. A gauze pad or a bandage is worn over the stoma to collect any mucus. (This is because mucus is continually created by the small intestine and some will leave the body through the stoma.)
When it’s time to empty the pouch, a small catheter is inserted through the stoma and the waste is emptied into a toilet. The mucus that is created by the tissue of the small intestine can help in the insertion of the tube.
There should be no discomfort while draining the pouch. It’s estimated that most people drain their BCIR anywhere between two and five times a day. The pouch can be intubated whenever it is convenient, but this will vary with foods eaten and other factors that affect stool amount and consistency. Some people may need to intubate during the night, but others find that this is not necessary.
Success Rates
One study of more than 500 patients with a BCIR showed that after one year, 92 percent of BCIR patients had functional pouches. Approximately 13% had more surgery to treat a pouch complication. About 7% had the pouches removed due to complications. All patients included in this study had the surgery done to treat ulcerative colitis or FAP. (It should be noted that this study was published in 1995.)
Another small study from 2005 showed that of 24 patients receiving continent ostomy procedures showed that 29 percent needed revisions surgery within a year. However, the authors of the study note that most patients were satisfied with pouch function.
Similar results were shown in a 2009 study where 64 patients who received a continent ostomy after a failed j-pouch, with 30 percent having a complication within 30 days and a 45 percent revision rate. Even with the high complication rate, authors note that most patients were satisfied.
Follow-Up
Surgical centers where a BCIR is performed often have detailed follow-up plans for patients that include multiple touchpoints, especially during the first year after surgery. This is largely because the rate of revision surgeries and complications tends to be higher than that for a traditional ostomy.
The specialized nature of the surgery will mean that keeping in close contact with the surgeons who understand how to treat potential complications is important.
A Word From Verywell
A BCIR procedure is not common and is usually only done for patients who are good candidates and are highly motivated. For those who have had other procedures for FAP or ulcerative colitis and have a strong desire to avoid a traditional ostomy, the BCIR may be a consideration.
Some of the drawbacks include needing to travel to have the surgery at a specialty center and the complication and surgical revision rates. Be sure to closely discuss your options with your doctor so that together, you can both make the right decisions for you.

 

Reply by newyorktorque, on Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:32 am

Hey Warrior its ok to be sarcastic and Bill thank you for the definition.  I wasnt familiar with this procedure.  I think I might be a little sarcastic myself.  Although I am not contemplating this operation, I am with you warrior.  I probably would pass on this but thats from my own perspective and condition.  It would be best to discuss this with your doctor.

Reply by iMacG5, on Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:34 pm

I think our main problem begins with our perception of that damn bag. Some hate it and would do almost anything to eliminate it. It’s just hanging there and who knows if people can figure out that we have it. God forbid! And, suppose it leaks. Holy crap. Having a bag of crap hanging from our bellies might be like the worst thing any human could experience. I swore I’d never get one. But here I am almost 10 years (to the day} since my CR and Bladder cancer diagnosis and doing almost everything I did before. The bag is not the worst thing in the world and it’s part of how so many of our lives were saved. I’ll never love it but I learned to accept it and so what? And if people can figure out that I have one, what will they do with that knowledge? We should care even less.
Let’s enjoy how good our lives can be.
Now, if I can remember all the info Bill sent us I’m thinking of doing some BCIRs on my work bench. I’m pretty good with tools.
Mike

Reply by warrior, on Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:58 pm

in today's society, its all about looks and selling oneself.. Sex is always a front runner up. Thanks Bill for that definition.

bcir sounds very complicated. For people wanting to hide "that damn bag" it could be a viable option , a vanity issue perhaps?

I think we all want a nice appearance. And feel good about doing whatever we can...

I am in the early stages of " the bag" . I'm sure like other illnesses, there are several stages..like quitting smoking...12 step? For veterans wearing the bag, they are well past the hang UPS some one like me and newbies are going through..

figured I throw the idea out there. Thanks all for your input and reply.

let's keep it swinging for now😁

Reply by w30bob, on Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:58 pm

Interesting topic.  After reading Warrior's initial post I was thinking along the same lines......sounds silly  Then I read Bill's Google info on the procedure.  It's pretty easy for me to see why the procedure would appeal to some.  Seems many on here have an ostomy AND severe underlying medical issues. For those folks having an ostomy with a crap bag is not a big deal compared to what else they're dealing with medically.  But if you have no other medical problems and your world has been turned upside down by having a shitbag glued to your six-pack, any option to get rid of it and get your life back to some semblance of normality would get serious consideration.  If I wasn't short-gutted I'd be one of those folks looking into it.  So it all depends on how big of a clusterf÷%ck having an ostomy and shitbag is to your lifestyle and how bad you want it returned back to normal. And normal would sure be nice.

Later,

Bob

Reply by mamatembo, on Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:32 pm

If you want to get an opinion from a colorectal expert, Dr. Thomas Read operated on me for my cancer 2 years ago when he was at Lahey Medical Center in Massachusetts. Last year he moved to Florida and is now a professor and chief of the division of gastrointestinal surgery at the UF College of Medicine in Gainesville. You might call and see if he does the BCIR, and if he does it might be worth a trip for you to see him. He is truly an expert in the field and is an honest man and will tell you whether he thinks a procedure is in your best interest or not. I very highly recommend him.

Dr. Thomas Read
Shands Cancer Hospital
Gainesville, FL
https://ufhealth.org/thomas-e-read/background

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