Health Care in the US

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C Cogan
Hello Hercule: I agree with you in that the health care situation in the U.S has to be improved. Unfortunately, big business, drug companies, and insurance companies, control much of the medical care costs in the US of A. These entities are interested mainly in lining their own pockets ( the almighty buck) It looks as if things here are going to get worse here with the upcoming budget cuts. I am one of the fortunate ones who can afford to pick up a few extra ostomy supplies every few months if I need them. But I feel so sorry for those with minimal incomes as they are the ones who are going to be hurt by the cuts. I think the president is trying to do the right thing for all citizens, but he has met with such negativity. All we can do is hope and pray that congress will come to its senses and increase taxes on the wealthy ( incomes over $250,000 a year) One of my sons and his wife have a $250,000 income between them ,and they would gladly pay more taxes to help those less fortunate. Cee Cogan
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Past Member
Dear CC: How proud you must be to have reared children who are so successful, responsible, generous and civic-minded. (The family picture is heartwarming by the way)..... You've done a good job!
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Xerxes
C Cogan,

I agree with you and I have the same situation as you do. I feel part of the big problem is these insurance companies that basically call all the shots. (Their lobby is a curse to all of us). For example, how can a cardiac surgeon spend eight hours in the operating room and get paid a fraction for what he/she did. How much would we have to pay a plumber for an eight hour job. I can just imagine. Then the insurance companies are always yelling fraud on the claims that are made by the physicians. Well, they have themselves to blame as they feed dishonesty and they have the audacity to pass the cost on to the consumer. The system is set up to fail the general populace.
KennyT
I feel so very fortunate to live in what we Australians call The Lucky Country. I cannot imagine my situation if I was not covered by our Medicare set up. I find it utterly disgusting that a nation the size of the USA can not realise that the most important things that need to be supported are their people.

Why is it when questions are asked about spending on training foreign medical students, lawyers etc that there is not a murmer regarding the billions of dollars spent by the US on defence (or maybe more appropriately offence) when your own people have to carry the burden of protecting themselves? This to me is anathema and I find it extremely difficult to comprehend. Is it more important to ensure that you have the ability to be the superpower nation on the face of the earth or maybe the nation who tends to their own? Whilst I understand the role the US has played in peacekeeping efforts around the globe they are just as guilty of involving themselves in conflicts purely and simply from a viewpoint of gain while at home sit the poor and needy with no sign of any further assistance. I for one find that disgraceful.

I proudly sit on the left side of the fence but I truly hope that the American people can one day be supported by a government that will not be dictated to by a rampant military interested in their own self worth.

Ken
Past Member

i can answer that if you will not take offence.
the us is a country of law, the governments role in things is strictly outlined in the us constitution.
the us constitution says{from memory so dont qquote me directly}
that the government quot;shall provide for the common defence quot;
it does NOT say that it shall provide medical care for it`s citizens.
it go`s on further to say that any powers not granted the federal govt
are delegated to the states{each indiviual state}.
this is a safe guard against an oppressive federal govt, the thinking{and rightly so}
that if you live in an oppressive state, you can simply move. state govts are more closely acessible to the common man{voter}.
so the answer is...the federal govt has no legal power to dispense health care services.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7M-7LkvcVw
 
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Past Member

The only reason Australia was lucky enough to side-step the so-called quot;Global Economic Downturn quot; was because of the previous conservative government's economic policies.

Perhaps the reason Britain's NHS has become such a nightmare is because of years of mismanagement under the socialist labor party and too many people rorting the system.

Just a thought from someone who proudly sits on the right side of the fence.
Traveling Lady
Mild, You are too young for Medicare and I also have a few years left to qualify. Much as I love my job I'd like to think I could retire some day and have some recourse on my astronomical medical bills. Though I'm a flaming liberal, I don't like the idea of too much government. And the Constitution does say as you've stated, but do we throw out health, education and welfare? I don't know the answers but it scares me that I've worked hard all my life and may not have any safety net when I can no longer work. What do you think? By the way, I really love your posts and the humor -- keep it coming! XXX TL
KennyT
Not quite true Jo but I will go with it. The economy in this country at the time the Liberal Party was voted out of office was not in a good state whatsoever regardless of what the right may want us to believe. That is the reason they got punted out of office. But irrelevant because we were talking about medicare I believe if I am not mistaken and taking care of your people. Did we lose that somewhere along the way in the discussion?? John Howard did exactly that.

I still wonder about my questions in previous post??

Ken
Rabbit
Remember when being a doctor was the highest paying career? They were over payed and now we've swayed to the other side and private practice isn't economically feasible. We've been screwed over so many times we don't know who to trust and so we've become a bit of a grabby society. And at the same time the non-profits seem to be a growing segment of the economic landscape-leveraging volunteers who work for free. Who knows what's fair anymore.
Past Member

Conservatives have never believed in the NHS whenever they are in we have massive cuts in health care, just our new PM is the most evil nbsp; nbsp;uncaring ***kin wan*** in UK history. Thanks to him if/when I have a perforated bowel again I will be left to die because the surgery is to expensive and the risk of survival is poor.
KennyT
Do not hold your breath Panther because the Tories track record if you sneak a quick look either over there, or over here is not attuned to taking care of the people as opposed to ensuring the magnates of the world become richer. That is their agenda after all. They are about looking after the money makers and forgetting about the people who make up the majority of the population.
KennyT
Hey MMSH it is ok to have your own political views but to post a right wing propaganda video is a bit over the top don't you believe? What was the John Birch inspired thing you posted supposed to do? It just ensures that the democrats are sitting and laughing at the right again.

Just anarchy under the democratic society?? Well it has not been the case in many nations on the face of the earth but I will bow to your video. Must be true.

Ken.
Past Member

ah ken, ever the liberal. please do not attack the message , kindly point out the errors in it for me. let`s refrain from name calling and have a logical and civil debate. do you propose that i quot;made up quot; the us constitution? you may google it and examine it your self.
back to you my liberal friend...........
Past Member

thank you TL for the civil reply. your mention of quot;throwing out health care,education and welfare quot; is very interesting. those are 3 things that facts will show the federal govt has spent billions of dollars on since say ww2. would you think that public education has improved in that time ? how about public housing, has that created the quot;safe haven quot; for the poor as was intended?? i would think that any logical person would agree it has not.
my grandfather completed the 8th grade, yet he was one of the most intelligent men i have know. today, we turn out high school grads that cant fill out a job application correctly.
would you then think, using logic..... the federal govt can quot;improve quot; our health care system? back to you.
Past Member
Mild Mannered,
;Reference to your responce to Kenny

Of course you are right in every way, What makes us and our government work the way it was designed by our founding fatheris a deep seeded feeling of trust. (I feel like I am not going to say this correctly, but I will try anyway.)

Comes to mind that any country can draw up a constitution with all the nice sounding words.
But to make the words work in an applied situation, there has to be that trust and respect. Trust that the other fellow will accept, as long as he can accept your trust and visa versa. Respect for his ability and his in you. For example there have been several countries that due to a revolution, have created a "new start" form of government, not unlike our democratic form. But it almost immediately began to crumble. Then absolute chaos. Libya, Egypt,Iraq, and several more. Why didn't their "new" governments work.
Because it was the same people as before, with no diversity in their background. Since this was the case, they were bound to slip back into their old ways of anarchy and/or dictatorship and wait for yet another revolution.

Where as we, Americans were from the outset, a group of diverse ancestry and back grounds that were the perfect catylyst for forming a new form of govrnment. Our likes for and our hatred for past forms of governments served uniquely to place us in one common mindset. ("Wow, that's heavy") for an amateur in Civics like me!

And yet we, or rather our government continues to try to force our form of government on the rest of the wold. We did just fine when our policy was "isolation" back under the Wilson presidency(not sure on this). But then came the
Lusitania incident and that help start us off on a journey that would end up costing American lives as well as American money. Maybe we need to figure out a way to return to a policy of isolation? Of course we cannot.

These are just my thoughts.
KennyT
Hey MMSH for one I don't believe I called you any names and I think if you check you find that to be so. Secondly I was not questioning the constitution but the video that was posted. That was some form of explaining political processes if I am not mistaken and not about the constitution.

Ken.
Past Member

ken, you are correct in that you did not call me names. you did call the video clip quot;right wing propaganda quot;. my point being, you did not point out any errors, you just paint it propaganda.
the clip, if watched explains in a very simple manner that in our form of govt, the federal govt is limited in it`s power by the constitution.
the will of the majority is not a factor, everyone can demand free health it matters not.
your original question was....not an exact quote...but how can we spend so much on defence, and nothing on health care for our citizens
and the answer is: the federal govt IS empowered to quot;provide for the common defence quot;
the federal govt IS NOT empowered to dispence healthcare.
was that your question?? have i answered it??

now, on to the point of the usa being quot;the worlds policeman quot; you will get no argument from me. again the constitution does NOT grant that right to our govt UNLESS it is to defend our homeland or our citizens abroad.
Past Member
Ok, I'm no constitutional scholar, but I do know that the people who invoke the original U.S. constitution tend to forget that the one we had in 1776 has changed quite a bit over the years and for good reason. Thomas Jefferson himself looked at the process of amending the constitution as something necessary and important to deal with unforeseen problems that were bound to emerge in the future. He knew it was ignorant and arrogant to assume that a group of 18th men would know how to deal with problems that would come up in the 21st century. He knew that government has to be a living breathing thing amenable to change.
The people who promote "states' rights" seem to conveniently forget how much the federal government does for them to keep their state economically afloat.
And another thing, the Constitution of today is not the original Constitution. It has been amended and if we go back we lose some the most important strides in human progress to have been made in our U.S. government such as the civil rights acts, women's right to vote and Social Security just to name a very few of the protections the Federal government set in place in our constitution.
The need of adequate and equal access to healthcare is supremely important in this country. The sad thing is that the poor and sick are invisible to most people and so it is easier for those with jobs and insurance to see these people as somehow not being responsible or hard-working enough and so deserve their own suffering. Maybe it allows people to sleep better at night to feel that way.

Also MMSH: The John Birch Society is famously right-wing and very often seen as an extremist political group by those of us not of the same persuasion. Propaganda is what they do. Liberal organizations put out propaganda too. It's not a dirty word; it's just the facts of the matter. Organizations like that have a personal bias and they tend not to be objective. Yes, it is propaganda. Personally, I found the video interesting at first, but then I found it quite slanted, simplistic, erroneous and well, after awhile boring. But that's just me.
mooza
Justput my 2 bobs worth in wat video and hi G ken SHITE STIRRIN LOVE IT ALL GOOD CORRECT MY SPELLIN KENNY hi lisa your all bit too out there for me LISA YOU BLOW MY MIND AWAY WHERE DO YOU GUYS GET ALL THIS SHSENHOUSEN FROM??COME TO JAMAICA CHILL hows it hangin G G DONT TURN OUR AUSSIE GIRL AMERICAN AND DONT CHANGE HER ACCENT PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE OK MY JOB IS DONE SORRY KEN AND LISA ..
Xerxes
I agree with your capsule summary. It is too bad for us all that Supreme Court Justices led by Scalia, Thomas, Roberts and Alito don't agree. So sad.
KennyT
I stick by what i said initially MMSH. It was a piece of propaganda and darned if I will back away from that. It is purely and simply a vehicle to convey right wing beliefs and seriously that is all it is. I could not agree with Herc more in that I found the clip quite interesting early on but then it just reduced itself to a very poor political statement, which I found not only boring and slanted but just a waste of time basically. I do not mind at all people with other political views stating their case but I just feel to portray that as a symbol of your Constitution is a long way off the mark.

Ken
Past Member
on the first statement i totally agree, reading your opinions on this and other issues point clearly in another direction.

on the second, states rights are a safe guard against an oppressive federal govt, as i said earlier, the point being if you live in an oppressive state, you can simply move. i think this is a reasonable option for the average citizen who might lack the rescorces to leave the country. i personally know several people who have used this option.

on the third statement, i find it odd that basically you are blaming people with jobs for ????
clearly in my situation, it is a very hard struggle to mantain my physically demanding job.
given the choice between that and quot;sucking the govt teat quot;i`ll take the struggle. i have no shame about it and sleep well every night, because i am tired.

i thought the video, although a bit simple, shows how our form of govt was designed to work. please be so kind as to point out the errors. the quot;more govt = less freedom is spot on in my opinion.

again, an interesting thread. regards to all
Past Member
I think we've hit the bottom on this one MMSH. If you think my opinions "on this and other issues" are that mis-informed just do yourself a favor and don't read them.

I'm not up to debating this issue further because I think it's clear where we stand and I respect your feelings. I must correct you on one misunderstanding though: I do not BLAME anyone for having jobs and insurance. That is completely wrong. In fact, I take the stance of believing we all have a right to have a job and insurance. I'm on the side of making those things accessible to all Americans.
Past Member
By the way...I've been thinking I ought to change my name from Herculisa to Mother Terlisa. I don't feel so Herculesie any more. But I do feel like a tough old Albanian woman who advocates for the poor, sick and needy. And I'm pretty much a nun, now that I think about it.
Xerxes
KT,

Thanks for your "on the mark" words. They are so cogent. It is a shame and borders on being criminal how all the so-called "super" powers channel so much money into being "super." I often think that these same countries also house the "super" intelligencia when it comes to research and development. Why can't they pool their intellect so to speak the way they set up military alliances in order to wipe out those dastardly diseases such as cancer, diabetes and AIDS that claim so many lives annually. I guess it makes too much sense to mean anything. Sadly, "Might makes Right" will always prevail.

X_
Xerxes
MMSH,

Do you really think that it is so easy for someone who feels they live in an "oppressive" state to just move to another? There are so many variables that have a profound impact such as health, age, family dependence and even "cultural" differences that ppl have to deal with when considering what you suggest. This is not "The Grapes of Wrath."

X_
Past Member
as i said, i know 2 people at my work who moved to kentucky. one from new york, the other from california. the fellow from new york said his property taxes were unbeliveably high. he sold his place and moved here, bought a place quite a bit larger and got a job. while he later took a job at another place, i still fish his pond about 1 time a year. the guy from california said he just didnt want to raise his kids in that mess. he is in his late 30`s i belive. the south is a popular place for such moves as are some of the western states .
why would that seem unbeliveable to you?? taxes are lower, property values are lower, less crime, more freedom, rural life style.
Xerxes
MMSH,

I did not say it is unbelivable. I was trying to say that it isn't as easy for just anyone to pick up stakes and move. Sure, for a single person or couple with young children it is more doable, but for others in different circumstances it isn't as realistic. I think more ppl fall into the latter than the former position. Also, New York, your example, is a big state with a lot of so called rural communities where life is slow and more gentle than NYC. One usualy gets a bigger bang for their buck outside of the big city and the property taxes are significantly lower and there are just as many ponds for fishing etc. and you can raise a family just as well as in Kentucky. I guess, we don't have blue grass. That must have been the draw.

X_
KennyT
One thing that bugs me totally MMSH is where in ONE post did anybody mention errors?? That astounds me as it does not appear anywhere.

What people were questioning in case you missed it was the fact of the video but alas you appear to have glossed over that for some reason. The video has nothing to do with the Constitution whatsoever and as I attempted to point out earlier is purely a propaganda message. At no time has anybody I believe accused you of stating anything that contains errors. I don't know where that comes from?

I think if you look back a bit MMSH you will agree. Maybe.
Past Member

ok ken, so if its true and contains no errors, no half truths, ect...its propaganda because ???
in my opinion, the truth, is not propagnda, simply because you or me doesnt hold that view.
that is why i asked you to point out the errors. did you watch the WHOLE video?? if you did not see referece to the constitution, well theres not much i can do to help you in that case.
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