Interesting Reading

Re: " Not worth the effort"

It being, as I and others, have stated, the forum has become quite humdrum, I was looking at some old posts. I happened to stumble on "Thoughts on suiside"and was drawn to it again.

There were many, many comments made. Some kind of critical ,but most very profound.

You could tell that there were many who without relating their experiences had, had some

dealing with the subject. If you want to see the real purpose of this forum pull the article up and re-read it. It is truly interesting and helpful, at least to some.

Jack

ps. "social discussins"

Jack, it was very interesting going back a few years and reading those posts about suicide. Several of the contributors have passed on (e.g., Dawn, Kat65, Etc.). I have a clip from a post by TerrybearUK which was shortly removed after his demise. Some people cannot cope with the horrible circumstances they find themselves permanently trapped in. I have always been "pro-life" and done everything possible to persuade people against suicide. Still, it continues and all of us chime in when the call for help is made. In a sense, we are our brother's keeper on this site and should use our best skills in discouraging self-destruction. I take every cry for help seriously and try to response when I have something to offer. Perhaps the real purpose of this forum is not to post platitudes which might assist the despondent, but to reflect carefully on the absolute value of just being alive inspite of all the hardships involved and communicating it. Not an easy task. Some may be saved, but a few will be lost. We need to watch out for each other and help some of these people reach better perspectives.

PB,
As usual your remarks are profound and as I have learned in the past, your remarks have always been very educational. I agree that we as members of this particular forum do have a sense of responsibility to other members due to the very purpose of this outlet. All members do have a cross to bear and some do not adapt to it as well as others. So it does behoove the stronger ones to be compassinate and helpful as possible.

We all know how devastating some one's death can be to the survivors. And regardless of what someone says, you can bet the person comtemplating suicide has had thoughts as to what effect it will have on those left behind. It is, I think another cross for them to bear, knowing how it is going to alter the lives they leave behind. So, they need compassion and what ever help one can offer. Don't you agree? I know that in my particular case, although I don't condemplate the act myself, I am so interwoven with family that I feel an acute responsibility to stay and be the patriach for as long as I possibly can. Now at the same time, I have not approached that bridge where I don't think I can bear continueing on living. So I really don't know about what I would do if, and when I reach that point. I would hope that I knew someone like you who would have the compassion to help in any way possible.
You are a good men, PB

Jack

Hello fellow ostomates.  I have removed the verse originally posted here as it now feels intrusive upon the ongoing thread that has focussed upon something much more important.

It was more than 50 years ago that I lost someone very close to me and the memories have never gone away. I have been happily married for almost 50 years and the relationship with my present wife has grown stronger the longer we have been together. The sentiments that you all have expressed have been a welcome reminder to me that the relationships we form in the process of living are unique and wonderful in practice but seem to have something extra that is over and above the physical and social.


Best wishes
Bill

Jack, I can appreciate where you are coming from, especially with the recent passing of your wife. Esther and I are approaching our 42 anniversary this summer and I do not anticipate many more anniversaries thanks to her Stage 4 breast cancer. We are handling things quite well and are making the most out of every day that we have left together. Our bucket list needs extra pages. Still, when I think of the inevitable, I know it will be very hard for me to function well or to just enjoy life as I have known it for so long without her. I also know that all around us are people who have lost loved-ones and who have somehow managed to overcome the pain of their loss and experience a little productivity, happiness and meaning in continued living. What is or are their secrets? Let me suggest three. Bill just spoke about the importance of control and choice in one's live. I am a firm believer in living a purpose driven life which can benefit others as well as yourself. Finally, all of us would agree that a strong connection to others is essential. There's no need to further elaborate on any of these supposed secrets, but I want to make one point, Jack. In reading your post, I see all three elements standing out strong. Do not be afraid. I know you will do the right thing for yourself and others. Life is worth living. PB

PB,

First, let me thank you for your kind words.
I wasn't aware of your beloved wife's condition, but you and she will now be in my thoughts and prayers. I am not going to even offer any advice, for there is none to give. After 42 years of marriage you have an insight to your relationship that no one else has. I too was married for 42 years to my first wife, Nonie. When she passed in 2003, I was devastated, completely lost. After stumbling around for two years, I found my Jane and started a brand new life and enjoyed eight years of a new found type of happiness.
I guess the point I am trying to make is that I never once considered suicide. I am the patriach of my family, (a position I did not want) and felt an obligation to stay around for my family. Especially knowing how it was with me after the passing of my patriach.

I sincerely hope that you and your wife enjoy many more years together. I envy you in that you have the pleasure of her now and when the time comes the feeling you will have in being her caregiver. I know, because it is hard to explain the type of comfort that it gives you knowing that you are caring for her in a way that no one else can, or even comprehend.

God bless you, my friend,
Jack

CD and PB,

Both of you have expounded on a subject that we know is inevitable. Some of us face it earlier than others. I think that one's physical passing is just that. The real person never really dies he or she always remains in your heart and mind tethered by a true love. I have heard this said before and although I listened and wanted to believe it it wasn't until I lost my wife 5.5 years ago that I came to Feel it. We were married almost 37 years. There isn't a day that goes by that I do not think of her or dream of her. Yes, she is gone, but the great memories that I have are always with me and just my surroundings that we shared bring her forth. I think my biggest help comes from my family, my children. Whenever I see them or am with them I see not only two sons and a daughter, but my wife as well. I truly feel her presence and how she and I were truly blessed. I cherish these occasions. I think in the end that life as we know it is really that of a light bulb where the glass globe is there only physicially to house the inner being who will live in your thoughts and feelings long after that bulb is gone. Bless both of you. PB I think esther will be with you for quite a long time.

X_

X,
That was a great post. I know exactly what you are talking about. Driving past a restaurant where you used to go, the park, the beach and a whole host of everyday events that bring back so many wonderful memories. And even the grieving process has a certain feeling of well being in that it is a feeling that only you can feel. I miss my Jane and still love her. I know that PB will, when the time comes have his own love and experiences as we have. God bless him. It is a very elite club that we belong to with so much unhappiness in the world. We are trully blessed.

Jack

Jack, X,
Thank you for your kind words. In a few hours we will be welcoming Spring which is a reminder of life and its continuity. Let's enjoy the moment, our memories and all the good that lies ahead.
PB

It's not simple and there'sno easy way out.  We‘reuncomfortable, we don't like where we are or we're in pain.  We hate what we feel and hate, even more, what we're doing to those who care about us.  Would it be so much better for everyone if we were gone?   What's “better” mean?  Less physical work?  Fewer routines?  But if we were not around anymore, who would pick up the pieces?  Yes, there are things we say, do, listen to, or whatever that we won't do anymore if we're not here.  I think some things will be missed and that wouldn't be fair to those remaining.  I'm not even mentioning the next life because there are those who don't think there is such a thing.  I think there is a “bottom line” to this and it's all about caring about others.  It's easy to care about ourselves because we are.  We think, we feel, we emote, suffer,regret and, hopefully, love, laugh once in a while and have others who love us.  We can't stop caring about the others.  I think they'll miss us when we're gone but if it's by our own doing, they'll never forgive us.  And they shouldn't.  We have a responsibility to others, especially the ones who care.  Some need us and, if we care, we cannot deprive them of ourselves.  I wish there was some magic words, songs, writings or whatever to make this simple.  There are not but there is a direction we can be helped toward.  And maybe there is some magic after all.  The direction is indicated by your posts.  The magic is the caring from Jack, Primeboy, Bill, Xerxes and others like you.  Total strangers to so many in need but giving all you can to help. It's a blessing.  Knowing you guys and gals are there makes it a no-brainer that quitting is wrong.  Nobody wins if we decide to checkout.  We really need permission and I don't think that's too likely until it's really time.  Sorry, but the reality is we're obligated to hang around, make the very best of it and thank God for those who love us.  Thank God for you guys and gals.

Sincerely,

Mike

EndFragment

Mac,

I did not mean to imply that all who contemplate suicide have a debt to the ones they leave behind. God knows that they have enough on their plate without adding any more.

As I stagger through my meager existance, I look around at the little projects that I have going on and the plans that I have for the future. Building that bird house, making sure that my tools are kept clean and oiled, redoing some yardwork, etc. And as I have been going through her things, I suddenly realize the she too, had things that she wanted to do as she got around to it. SHe was going to rearrange the photo albums, have me plant a new rose bush, get her hair done differently. She never got to do any of those things, and it reminds me of my on frailty. Some day I too, will not have to worry about my tools, I may never build that bird house nor get another haircut. My best intentions will never be realized. No one will ever even think about those things after I am gone. In short we all will leave before we realize all the things that we needed or wanted in this life. I never thought much about it until she left me. And then I began to realize that there were so many things that she had planned and never got around to. It doesn't matter now, she is gone. So I putter around in a kind of daze, rearranging the photo albums, planting that rose bush, getting a hair cut and knowing that someday it won't really matter. But it somehow it does give me a purpose and I find myself thinking, "this is for you Darling"
I am going to continue celebrating her life as long as I have a breath in this old tired body and not even think about leaving this earth until it is my time, No sir!, I am going to enjoy every single moment of my memories.

Jack

Well said....

To think all of these wonderful posts and posters all came together from the old title, "Not worth the Effort". I'd be willing to bet those words were lost in the topic at hand, and I don't for a second mean you were wrong, I'm just simply amazed at how you were able to draw in some of the most intelligent posters on this forum to partake in such a worthwhile discussion, so much so I have read and reread all the posts and although I wouldn't try to interject my own experiences and be able to express my own thoughts when I can read the more profound replies that have come to the fore. I only add this out of the deep appreciation for what others have expounded. I will forever be grateful, Gute, Ed

Thanks Ed,

There were some wonderful heartfelt posts, from some great people. I really appreciated reading them all.Like you Ed., I re-read several of them and it DID remind me of the very compassionate souls that participate here in this forum.

This is what I was after when I was sniffleing about the absolute boredom that had transended on the forum. The great responses from some real "word smiths".. All have feelings similar to, but all can't elocute as well as some of the posters we have the good fortune of having in this forum. We have a great bunch of posters!
Jack

AMEN BROTHER, AMEN. Gute

Our awesome Brother Primeboy has got it together, big time....great words PB....Cheers!

~Doe