Sorry, Bain. In my post I gave Bill credit for your insightful post. I'll be more careful in the future.
No worries. I'm not worried about credit. Just happy someone read the post...lol
Hey Soulscope, I certainly was not looking for an argument but now that I read your last entry, I'm thinking we're not on the same page. The world is whatever we make it; you, me, Bain, Bill, Don and all those who offered some thoughts. We offered these thoughts because you asked a question and we care about the folks who share their thoughts with us. We really care! There's a synergy from our efforts to help each other and sometimes folks thank us because our efforts helped them. We help each other. We respect each other and "listen" with open minds. What's WRONG with that? Granted, we're experiencing a lot of crap these days and there will always be some bad people out there but this world is made up of mostly good people. Lots of them are here.
PS: Thanks, Bain.
Hi DonBrown. I just wanted to mention some similarities besides being ostomates. My wife and I were each 2 years older than you and your wife when we got married almost 55 years ago. You two debated the children issue for about three years. We talked about it for about 3 days. We were blessed with a girl then a boy and they each have a girl and boy. We're happy we made that choice and they told us, more than once, they are also.
I'm passing this on to Soulscope.
Hi, Mike. There's something about being committed to another person for that long that truly turns the two of you into one. My parents were married for 68 years. My older brother and his devoted wife were married for 65 years. She is still my sister and I consider her to be the matriarch of the family. I am close to becoming the patriarch, but so far I have refused to accept that role. My oldest brother lives in California and he travels back to Oklahoma every other year to fill that role but travel gets harder for him every year, at 85 years old. At only 73, and living in Texas, I will be expected to pick it up but my health is not much better. I liked your post about you and your wife. I would say you did and are still doing your part to make the world a better place.
Hey Don, Thanks for sharing your story and thanks so much for your kind words. You've been blessed with a family of loving, caring folks not to mention their longevity.
With all due respect to Soulscope, things are way different from when you and I were young parents. It still took a lot of hard work raising kids back then but the whole concept of family was different. There are many more things that could go wrong with young ones today and, unfortunately, more moms and dads are working more hours are are unable to spent the quality time required to realise that whole, happy, healthy family thing.
That's true, Mike, and I do understand why Soulscape asked her original question. Two of my adult children had to live with me for many years because they couldn't find jobs that paid a living wage, even though they were well qualified. The other child married young to a well-paid software engineer. She finished her degree, became a CPA, and gave that up to be an 8th grade algebra teacher. Their two sons are finding it hard economically. My 3rd grandchild has two little girls and moved to Oklahoma because they were finding it too hard to make a living in Texas. And that only covers the economic reasons. Crime has risen, wars have spread, and politicians are more corrupt. Yes, times are different and it probably does require more commitment and hard work to raise a family today. Still, I believe that good people should do just that to maintain balance or try to improve conditions. Thanks for the reminder, Mike.
Great question and thoughtful responses! The world we are now living in makes your issue urgent. Most people see reproduction and child-rearing as essential functions of life; but they must pause and reflect on the world they send their offspring into. Since the start of civilization people found reasons not to have children, such as disease, poverty, famine or war. Those reasons still exist today, but our populations across the globe are nonetheless expanding.
What would worry me, if I were a prospective parent, is the encroachment of the state into the lives of all families, even though an increasing number of parents have failed in their responsibilities thereby justifying this intervention. Every year we learn that this group or that class has rights; but has anyone here heard of state efforts to support or expand parents rights? When I grew up, the family was the building block of society. Now, it seems, the state is becoming the building block of the family. I would not want to raise children in a world where the state infringes on my rights as a parent. Sadly, it's happening more and more.
The world will be much better off with strong family life, whether traditional or otherwise.
To what aspect of procreation are you questioning?
Your one sentence could encompass many doubts and insecurities regarding the world in which we live in to the nature of the youth in world to the responsibility of becoming a parent which is fraught with worries and concerns of "are we doing it right?" to "my kid is NOT going to be ____ (fill in the blanks)!"
All are legitimate concerns and it's good to consider your choices before deciding even though few do. Many of us think of it as a forgone conclusion while others think it's required of them and others still who think of parenting as a gift we look forward to. Still others don't put any thought into it at all.
When it comes to "What is this world coming to?!!"...many years ago I began to think of what my mother and people her age must think of this world. There were a lot more of them at the time who were born in the twenties and it occurred to me how often in her life has she made that statement yet the world is still turning round and round.
Think of this one person...she was born on an Indian reservation with no running water, no electricity, no telephones and had only seen horse drawn carriages til she was sent to boarding schools to learn how NOT to be an Indian. That was the world she knew and accepted with its own rules and intolerances and values that she lived by without questioning.
Think of everything they survived: she was a child when Wall Street crashed and survived the depression. She remembers the bread lines and having no food at all. She remembers the Oklahoma dust bowl and seeing the farmers packed in their grapes of wrath trucks heading out with all they owned. She watched her brothers headed out to the war in the pacific while she stayed to become Rosie the Riveter.
She remembers hearing the first news reports of the Holocaust as the story unfolded. Then the glory days when our boys came home. She moved me and my sister here to California on a Greyhound bus after the Korean War when the war jobs dried up.
We watched the KKK marching in front of the capitol and bras and draft cards being burnt while our president was shot and his brother who we hoped would change the world but instead we saw our president declaring "I am not a thief!"
we saw the tarmacs filled with coffins every night on the news while she sent her stepson to sign up for the draft. An actor for a president hmmm. Another getting a bj in the Oval Office.
You know what all she's been through since then but let's consider the technology that's advanced in her lifetime. Now here I try to tell her of an app I've downloaded but she has no clue what I mean. I try to show her a picture on my phone but can't let her touch it because she wipes it out every time.
If she had seriously contemplated the shape this world is in I would never have been born by this old world does keep turning round and round and while it's all screwed up it has been before and people will make it right.
I have 3 beautiful children and they have been my greatest joy as well as my deepest heartache and they and their children are all I live for....and my mom.
Very Good and Thoughtful Answer Bain. Soulscoup, whatever has made you skeptical, is a result of your experience, or how you perceive the world. In every generation....or century, for that matter, there were major issues, the made people questions their future, and that of their children. My grandfaterher, left his wife and four children in Russia, when he set out for America. It took him 10 years, to bring them all over. I'm sure they had doubts. After being sick with UC, for 4 years....and then another few years getting use to my ostomy, and then having the final surgery, I had to decide if the quality of my life was good enough to risk bringing children into the world with Crohn's, or UC> ( My ex husband had the same disease, so it was a double wammy) We went ahead to have children, who both have IBD. I felt guilty....so did their dad, but they have coped wonderfully, married, have children, and rewarding marriages and careers. They will deal with their future, as we've dealt with ours. Despite it's obvious issues and faults, I see the world as a beautiful miraculous place.....not always perfect, filled with all types of people, not always perfect. We are blessed with individual choices... That's a blessing in itself.
Looks like that's what you believe
I won't be bringing kids into this workld. My ostomy saw to that.
I'm sorry to hear that.
Not knowing how you feel on the matter I won't throw out platitudes of other possibilities except to say there are some.
Keep the faith.
|NJ Bain wrote:|
I'm curious as to why you asked the question?
You and me both.
7.5 Billlion people on the planet, seems to me a lot of folks have...
maybe we should ask our parents....