Kaepernick vs. Floyd: Who bothers you more?

I offer you this vision since uploading a photo was just too much. I shake my head and wonder what is happening to my southern neighbor in these tough times ... and now this.

Which bothers you more - Colin Kaepernick kneeling at an NFL game or the cop kneeling on George Floyd? I am lost for words - which may be a good thing. I know one thing for sure; I would be a protester. Just saying ... Karen

Hey Karen

"Protesters" tore up Raleigh today, destroying private property and businesses as well as destroying the TV station attempting to give a voice to their platform. I protested against the Vietnam War, Kent State, Columbia and Berkeley SDS actions that incited violence, as well as being physically attacked when advocating for abortion rights and freedom of choice. I NEVER threw ANYTHING, swung at ANYONE, or threatened anyone trying to keep the peace. Violence is NOT the answer, and it only reinforces the ignorance that feeds division. I wonder when we lost our faith in voting? Oh yeah, I remember.

P.S. I don't care who takes a knee--THAT is freedom of speech. Destroying property and endangering lives is NOT freedom of speech, and threatening MY "pursuit of happiness" with the AK 47 hanging around your neck while you "argue" with me about YOUR "rights" to bear arms seems just a tad disingenuous. :-)

Peace

Nancy

Protesters are accepted, looters and rioters are not. I live just outside Minneapolis and work in the heart of Minneapolis and the George Floyd thing makes me want to puke, it's horrible that one person's screwed up decision could lead to so much pain and suffering.

Praying for peace and justice.

Chris

Hi Sis,

So much for social distancing and wearing masks, eh?

Seriously, as a dumb-ass white guy I have to admit I don't get it. I understand the cop who killed Floyd is a total A-hole and should rot in prison... but the whole narrative that blacks are killed by cops at a higher rate than other ethnic groups just isn't supported by the data. Just check here; https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

And yet blacks commit about half as many violent crimes as whites... but are only 13% of the population. So what's the real issue?

Regards,

Bob

Hello Karen.
Thank you so much for this stimulating post.
I can understand why people feel the need to protest in the way that they do because I suspect that violence begets violence and racial hatred and attacks have been going on across the world for thousands of years. (not much appears to have changed in that timeframe.) I also feel that the so-called 'democratic' voting system we have is fundamentally flawed, so this is not likely to bring satisfactory answers/solutions to those who are oppressed by racial hatred.
However, I have never taken part, or been an advocate of violent protests, and my chosen form of protesting is by way of rhyming verse. This too is pretty ineffectual in the overall scheme of things, but at least it documents what is going on, will last for generations to come, and might show just how little progress the human race has made. In my writings, I have chosen not to focus on 'racism' as my chosen 'word' to describe what I see in this regard, but I prefer to highlight it as 'BULLYING'. This enables me to illustrate how it is not just practiced as a form of racial oppression but manifests itself in a myriad of different ways in nearly all human relationships, whether that is with other humans, animals or inanimate objects. What a sad/bad bunch we are!
Bob: Just a note/quote on statistics from Mark Twain's autobiography; "THERE ARE THREE TYPES OF LIES - LIES, DAMNED LIES AND STATISTICS".
I had a brief look at the statistics from Statistica that you suggested and my first thoughts were that the definition of 'black' has been changed over the last decade or two. This change reflects the growing realisation that racial hatred is not simply about black and white, but about one set of people being xenophobic towards almost everyone who is not from their 'group'. ( in this case 'white' people- who feel they are somehow better than everyone else.) The more generic term 'Black', now refers to anyone who is oppressed by people who feel 'superior' (and are willing to oppress) towards others.
Given this more up-to-date definition, a quick re-calculation of the statistics indicate the deaths from the same set of statistics as:
          WHITE   BLACK/OTHER
2017 - 457       530
2018 - 399       597
2019 - 370       634
2020 -  42        186

Of course, I do not claim that my alternative perspective on these statistics are any more valid than the original portrayal, but it does indicate that this problem is much more complex than a 'simple' street-protest might suggest.

Best wishes
Bill

I should not finish without a reference to a rhyme I wrote in 1989 for a ‘black’- friend of mine who was active in the ‘Black-Power’ movement of the time. These were times when I wrote my rhymes by hand and they are therefore not readily available to cut and paste.
So below is a re-typed version:
FREEDOM:

A bureaucratic internee
loses creativity.
WHEN BLACK MEN GET THEIR FREEDOM
WILL THEY THEN FREE ME?

Injustice and hypocrisy
throughout this base society.
WHEN BLACK MEN GET THEIR FREEDOM
WILL THEY THEN FREE ME?

I’ve suffered through bureaucracy
and I’m as white as white can be.
WHEN BLACK MEN GET THEIR FREEDOM
WILL THEY THEN FREE ME?

All men pay the penalty
succumbing to their subtly.
WHEN BLACK MEN GET THEIR FREEDOM
WILL THEY THEN FREE ME?

We don’t escape captivity
for this has been our legacy.
WHEN BLACK MEN GET THEIR FREEDOM
WILL THEY THEN FREE ME?

I am, in truth, a refugee
for my nonconformity.
WHEN BLACK MEN GET THEIR FREEDOM
WILL THEY THEN FREE ME?

With my peculiarity
I see a similarity.
WHEN BLACK MEN GET THEIR FREEDOM
WILL THEY THEN FREE ME?

I wish them very well you see
when fighting inequality.
WHEN BLACK MEN GET THEIR FREEDOM
WILL THEY THEN FREE ME?

Will they take a Judas fee
or struggle to eternity?
WHEN BLACK MEN GET THEIR FREEDOM
WILL THEY THEN FREE ME?

Great, bright future I foresee
with black men fighting ‘longside me.
WHEN BLACK MEN GET THEIR FREEDOM
WILL THEY THEN FREE ME?

B. Withers 1989

G'morning ....

I'm all for protesting, but doing so peacefully. All this looting and burning is causing deaths and more harm to innocent people. Many are taking advantage of this horror to steal and burn... that's not acceptable ..

As a person of color, I get it. Mr. Floyd's death was caused by one who's there to protect. Thank goodness it was caught on camera. Mr. Floyd's death is just one of thousands that happen all the time with no penalty.

Really, is this a surprise? It's not to people of color. The brutality has existed for 400 years; it's just done differently, yet still abuse.

People seem to forget we're already in a fight for our lives. The virus, whose deaths could have been prevented had the government acted sooner.

Personally speaking, to me, all lives matter.... all colors are protesting. So let's not forget there are people of all races that care.....

I pray we will survive this..

Take care all.....

Angelicamarie

Hi all, the video was hard to watch and it reminded me of Eric Garner in New York with several cops on him and him saying the same thing: "I can't breathe." With the recent deaths of other black people, I'm glad nowadays for cameras being handy so these events don't go unnoticed. But the looting and burning is just hurting everyone and is wrong. Our do-nothing president doesn't help by calling for releasing the dogs and shooting.

Hi Ron and other posters.

Hopefully this post might be a reply to all the brave responses.

I live in the heart of Edmonton and only a few blocks from our parliament buildings. In taking part in numerous demonstrations over the years, I have objectively witnessed the following:

** Embedded in every protest are career protesters, rioters, and looters. They don't like much of anything in this world, so they are there to create havoc and more often than not, are boisterous, undisciplined, and disrespectful. They are not even there for the protest focus. They usually make things worse and try to deflect from the real issue.

** Protests here must be scheduled with the local government so that there is police protection on both sides – the active protesters and the others watching. People protest over real issues; this is not a lifestyle choice.

** Half of the protests result from systemic issues – issues that go unresolved year after year. The other half stem from what policies the current government supports.

** I have never been in a protest that turned violent or where looting occurred. I have seen a few punches thrown and a few arrests, but that is about it. But then, Edmonton is not a large city.

I currently work in our Indigenous communities. Their oppression has stemmed from being forced into residential schools, forced onto reserves, and given government money to make up for what has historically happened. This does not build self-esteem and a feeling of worth. I have learned about lateral violence which can start with a simple "rolling of the eyes." If left unchecked, it can turn into many types of violent activities: domestic, criminal, employment, etc.

HURT PEOPLE HURT PEOPLE.

Working closely with our social service industries, I have realized that the theory of the "anger mountain" plays out in the real world and as anger triggers and escalates, it involves more than the issue at hand – it often is an accumulation of all that has been wrong and unfair and is often status or politically oriented: housing, education, voter suppression, job opportunities.

Then the mountain explodes. When this happens, emotions (95 emotional and 5 cerebral) take over, propelling a result such as what happened in the George Floyd protest. We had smaller protests all over Canada as well because these issues are not confined to borders. What happens in the south trickles into the north and vice versa, so I too have a vested interest in these protests.

It would be "telling" to find out who was behind the destruction of the local food services, precincts, pharmacies in Minneapolis and St. Paul, and other cities. Was it an organization(s) that took this opportunity to piggy-back on these protests – just to add a destructive element to what is happening – perhaps to stoke the racist wars? Who would destroy the very neighborhood they depend on for these services?

I attended the #MeToo women's protest in Edmonton after the inauguration of the current US president. I was working out of province and just had enough time to park the car and race to the legislative grounds - with no poster or the means to make one – just to show support. After all, I am a woman. On arrival, I was handed a "pussy hat" and a white board and a marker, from some very well-prepared protesters.

Since the first day on my first job, I have noticed an inequality in the advancement of women and it still exists today – nothing much has changed – 30 years later. In that rally, there were "outsiders" who tried to get the attention of the media and who tried to deflect from the real issues. I just wanted to shake (well, slap) one person but then he would have succeeded in deflecting the attention to him and that was not my purpose for being there. Instead, I thought positively in that I was not married to a person like that and that our meeting was only temporary.

I realize that this type of post will bring out the emotion in people, but silence is no answer either. I am more concerned about this than I am about an ostomy appliance that leaks. Protests like these shape our world – for our kids and for our grandkids. I need another forum to post on – any suggestions?

I will continue to protest peacefully on issues relevant to creating a better lifestyle for all peoples in this world. I will not allow myself to be desensitized - as a coping mechanism.

Well, Karen!!!

As usual, you are demanding we actually think. How dare you?!? All kidding aside, I too am exceptionally concerned about this latest act of police aggression and the resulting violence accompanying what often start as peaceful protests. There are always antagonists attempting to make the moment their own. Adversaries take advantage of our emotions, our passion, and the heat of a moment where we feel the need to stand up and be counted. Unfortunately, those moments don't seem to stay with us for very long, but the painful results of foolish actions are never-ending. Instead of learning, we quickly revert to our status quo of blissful ignorance (or at best disengaged distancing) from those moments that demand examination, thought, and the proper implementation of a safe, respectful means of expression that is capable of producing results. We seem unable to arrive at a solution that can fill that bill. Change is painful and difficult, and we resist it instinctively. But it is also necessary for humanity to survive. As a species, human beings are really failing at our global responsibilities.

Peace

Nancy

Be careful how you use stats to illustrate anything - stats don't give the whole picture. For example, the police killings of George Floyd and Eric Garner wouldn't be included in those stats because they weren't shot. Similarly, the shooting deaths of Trayvon Martin and Ahmaud Arbery wouldn't be included because they weren't shot by police. But those deaths, and many others, definitely figure into the bigger picture of what is going on here.

The link that you have provided shows a higher number of white people shot by police than black people, as well as Hispanic people. However, if you add together non-whites and compare the numbers to whites, we start to get a clearer picture. Now if we consider that whites make up (according to the US Census Bureau, 2019) approximately 76.5% of the overall population, we see an even clearer picture. Non-whites are much more likely to be shot by police at a disproportionately higher rate than are whites, by population percentage.

So why, I wonder, are we using race as a social construct here anyway? Why aren't we using gender? Or socio-economics? Or education? Is race even an important mitigating factor? Maybe it is, or maybe it isn't, but I have to say that the US is an incredibly racially stratified country, and I guess I am somewhat cynical about why that is.

As to your question "So what's the real issue?", unfortunately, that is much more complex than can be answered superficially, and I can't do it justice here. But what I will say is that we have to stop looking at race as an answer. We have to step back and look at what else might be contributing factors. Factors like marginalization, poverty, education, underemployment, poor housing, lack of medical care, exposure to abuse and violence as a child, realistic opportunity, level of hope, etc., etc., etc.

The death of George Floyd may be a tipping point. We have seen that in the #MeToo movement as well. There comes a time when enough is enough, and asking nicely clearly just isn't working. Anyone who says they haven't seen this coming has not been paying attention.

Oops! Typo! I meant to say that non-whites are much more likely to be shot by police than whites, by population percentage.

So Bob, I don’t get it either and I’m a much older dumb-ass white guy. I study the statistics, trust their validity but can’t attest to the method used to arrive at those numbers. Unfortunately, for me at least, I think all humans of all races and skin colors have some degree of racism inherent in their psych. I know, I know, we hear it all the time, “I’m not a racist!”. But would you want to live next door to them? In Trenton, New Jersey in the forties and fifties, an Italian wouldn’t want a Polish person on the same block. Karen wrote about how different things were from one city or province to another. In my hometown back then two or three BLOCKS could determine the difference between a German and a Nazi, Italian or Wop, Polish Person or Dumb Polock, Hungarian or Dumb Hunky and on and on. African Americans were the “Colored People” whom, we were told, lived way south of us. Jews owned everything but lived in secret places. Somehow, all the Eastern Europeans worked shoulder to shoulder in the Roebling Factory or one of the other manufacturing facilities. The Jews did not. Didn’t know where the “Colored” folks worked. Fortunately for my siblings and me our parents showed almost no prejudice to any of those who were different from us in any way. Mom & Dad might’ve giggled about other’s practices but never condemned any. Rather, they often expressed the possibility of those others doing things the right way and maybe we could learn from them.
As I aged I worked with folks of just about every nationality, color and creed. I worked very closely with folks who never saw the inside of a classrom and folks with multiple PhDs. Some became way more than just coworkers.
I might have some understanding of why some of the things happen some of the times but how we got to be where we are I can’t understand. Mayby if we all admitted what we really felt we’d be a little closer. How do we do that?
Just not smart enough,
Mike

As I sit here watching some of what is going on, I cannot understand how this is helping anything. Protesting is one thing, but all the rioting is uncalled for. It solves nothing. How is setting fire to places of business helping to get justice? I agree, what happened to Floyd was wrong as it can get, and all involved should be arrested. I just pray it will all end soon. Stay safe.

Mike,

Well said... and I grew up one generation after yours. When I went to visit my grandparents, it was exactly as you described. My folks bought their house in a more diverse town, although there was only a handful of black kids in my high school. Imagine if someone invented a machine that broadcast our thoughts all the time... I'm not sure we'd want to go there. It's human nature to fear that which we don't understand... and there's a lot of stuff not understood... race being one of them.

Pad,

Wow... your point is well taken! Data can be manipulated to support almost any conclusion, and I just pulled up the most generalized data that I could find. My bad. The rest of your post was spot-on as well. I think race is what is focused on because it's the easiest to do so and requires no thinking... and obviously no one likes to think. We also can't have a real conversation because the topic instantly splinters into other topics. For example... why was he passing counterfeit money... or go broader... why do blacks commit so much crime... or broader... why do so many people of all races commit so much crime... or broader... must be bad parenting at the root of all this... why are there so many bad parents? So you can see that just trying to answer what seems like a simple question as why do police treat different races of people differently... ends up with everyone running in a different direction passing blame on something other than what it needs to be focused on. So the conversation that needs to happen... probably won't.

As for folks having had enough... I'm not sure. The Floyd case is about to get very interesting. The looters and thugs are stealing the spotlight now, and you know how quickly the public forgets. Or at least shifts focus to the new news. But this case I think is about to get explosive. They played bodycam recordings of the incident and the other 3 officers are heard telling the dipshit with his knee on Floyd's neck to put him on his side and to let him up... but dipshit was the lead officer at the scene and overruled them. I'm not saying the three shouldn't have done more, just saying they did attempt to change the situation and were overruled by the senior officer. So from a legal perspective, it might be hard to bring charges against them. And as for dipshit himself... the coroner's report came out and Floyd DID NOT die of asphyxiation... meaning the knee on his neck is not what killed him. He had arterial disease, was intoxicated, and had a host of other issues... but he didn't suffocate as everyone thinks. THAT will give dipshit some legal wiggle room as well. So like I said... this train ride isn't over yet.

What we really need are robotic police officers. Where's the IT tech giants when we need them? Imagine a cop that has no bias or anger... with something like that, all the bullshit stops. If he shoots your ass, you deserved it. If he pulls you out of the car, it's because it was proper protocol, not because he's pissed at you for calling him a pig. We need those robots NOW. Elon, Billy Gates... you guys checking this forum? It's Robocop time!

Regards,

Bob

Well... stop the presses! Another reason we can't talk about things like this is it's hard to get the facts straight! Driving home from work this afternoon, I heard on the radio that a second autopsy has ruled that Floyd DID die of asphyxiation at the scene of the incident. So maybe the rule for discussion is we have to wait for all the dust to settle and all the facts to be determined. But that can't happen with our 24/7 news cycle. Here we go...

Cheers,

Bob

Hi Mike,

I actually do live next door to "them". We purchased our home 22 years ago in Old Raleigh. There are 23 homes in our community. My husband and I are the only whites living in this community. We are also the youngest at 65 and 67 years old. When we bought here, our neighbors were concerned about us, wondering just how we would fit in with these folks who had mostly been here for 40 to 60 years! We threw a block party and made sure to get everyone to come, introduced ourselves to one another, and learned a bit about each other. Over these past years, we have looked out for one another during hurricanes, ice storms, and power outages right up to this damn pandemic. Together, we have all watched the 100-acre farm across the street from our community develop in the last two years into 84 ---500K homes, pretty rich for this neighborhood. I can feel the angst when I speak to my neighbors, and I agonize over how we glibly "regentrify" a neighborhood for the good of the community, all the while displacing those whose income becomes insufficient as the neighborhood becomes more valuable. The African American community has suffered a lot of this type of displacement and the anger that goes along with feeling left out.

BUT, on the other side of this coin, in 1971 at 17 years of age, the dean of admissions at the state college of my choice told me to my face that he needed BLACK GIRLS to fill his quotas. My GPA was 3.9. My SAT was 1580. My two ACT scores were both perfect 400's. I was an intramural cheerleader and I played BB all four years. Also, I had received a National Merit Scholarship and a scholarship to Katharine Gibbs Business School. But the dean couldn't admit me because he needed black girls. Was THAT racial discrimination? It sure felt like it. His assessment was that I would be able to go anywhere with my stats. But I wanted to go THERE, and I couldn't.

As I am typing this, the highway 5 miles from my house is being blocked by protestors. Well, by denying those now stuck in standstill traffic, this group of protestors attempting to make a point has just alienated those sitting for hours unable to get to their jobs, their appointments, and their homes. Do YOU think they won supporters over with that move? Screaming about the denial of YOUR rights while you DENY me mine is foolish at best and a storm starter at worst. For the past two nights, Raleigh downtown has been DESTROYED. WHY?? THAT does NOT make any statement other than a lack of concern for the community as a whole.

I don't know the solution to the inequality in the world because it's a pretty big place and the inequities take place for a multitude of reasons. But I DO KNOW that GIVING something to anyone based on color is NOT an answer. Equality is not a SIMPLE thing, hell, women in America STILL DO NOT have equal rights. I think we need a broader picture with no frame in order to come up with solutions that are satisfactory to everyone. There will always be discrimination, whether for race, creed, or gender. Humans are arrogantly stupid. And there will always be those who suffer the indignities of that discrimination. I will admit that this is one major reason that I support a UBI for all Americans, which helps to level the playing field. Andrew Yang was the only candidate to suggest and understand just how serious it would be for America if our incomes were jeopardized because the majority of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. Roll back that 2.5 TRILLION DOLLAR TAX BREAK to the 1% and institute a VAT for every company that has paid no taxes for the past five years. Leave Social Security/Medicare alone. Create jobs with a budget for our necessary infrastructure, and GROW ALL AMERICA, not just big business. More than 54% of our businesses are small businesses. Without those small businesses, big business will continue to accommodate only their bottom line, and middle America will disappear completely.

If we could just learn to ACCEPT each other and learn to help each other, rather than to try to change each other, the world would surely be a happier place.

PEACE

Nancy

Nancy, I want you as my neighbour! In fact, I have reread your post and I think you might already be Canadian. A UBI for all Americans? Holy smokes! You are speaking my language. Solidarity, sister! Maybe this should be a new forum topic.

Laurie

Laurie

Don't think it hasn't been considered, but I am truly red, white, and blue American! The biggest problem with the UBI is that most Americans seem unable to grasp where the money can come from. VAT and rolling back that ridiculous tax break for the 1% can instantly resolve that issue, at least to begin with. No more excuses about "trickle down". We are in a PANDEMIC--WHERE ARE ALL THOSE RICH COMPANIES WHO GOT BREAKS, and where the hell is the 1%? Yes, a number of them are certainly contributing, but there seem to be a few missing the point. They'd best join the party because they won't survive without middle America.

Peace

Nancy

On second thought, your country needs you and people who think like you. But you can be an honorary Canadian anyway.  

Laurie

Won't you be my neighbor - both of you. One of us has to run for office :) K

I nominate you.   Guess I'd have to move to be able to vote.....

Don't forget - there are such things as mail-in ballots. One of these days when the dust and grift settles, we must meet for coffee :) K

One of the best Twitter posts I've ever seen had me in hysterics a couple of days ago, and seems fitting here: "I'd like to congratulate the astronauts who left the Earth today. They made a good choice." Couldn't have said it better, or more succinctly myself. L

So Nancy. WOW! Thanks for sharing your stories and your perspective. I just need to clarify that my reference to “them” didn’t mean any particular race, color, creed. Just different.
I suggest we encourage Karen to come south and join you and Laurie in a campaign to make things a whole lot better here. Maybe Bill will leave the UK. Nah, they need him there. Pretty sure Bob and Angel would jump in as advisors.
Where the heck are we?
Confused,
Mike

Lovey,

No problem. I wasn't attempting to open a forum on political choice. Been there, done that. I agree that opinions are different, and for very different reasons. People are different. That was the desired end result of this seeming dissertation. I honestly believe in free choice, and I will continue to live within the laws of this country, regardless of who is in office, and regardless of blatant examples of someone believing they are above the law. Thanks for commenting. More than anything, I believe in freedom of choice.

Dadnabbit

I would like to thank everyone for posting on this thread; keep it coming.

Our collective schools of thought have made me a much "richer" person, thanks to all of you. I have even learned some more history about my country and other countries. I must admit that I also like pushing buttons, if you know what I mean, as I believe group think is a dangerous thing. I thrive on the thought process, therefore love and appreciate the passion with which people have expressed their life's experiences in many of these posts on this site, many infused with wit, humor, frustration, stubbornness, and yes, sarcasm.

Life has become more complicated, selfish and dangerous. Coming from a very communal ranching teen-hood, our rural neighbors, when done with their seasonal harvesting, would move to the next rancher's land and so on – much like a barn-raising. I do not see much evidence of that now, as everyone tends to be absorbed in their own functions and dysfunctions.

These protests may just bring back togetherness not oneness. Quite possibly at a huge cost as well! Our current world situation may have just uncovered what has not been working so well so far. Our humanity! The ability to tell grief from rage! The ability to care about someone else - not just ourselves! The ability to think past our nose! Most importantly - empathy! 

We place our precious children in daycares with very underpaid workers and on the other end of the spectrum of life, we place our seniors in nursing homes hoping that they will be well cared for – by underpaid workers again, in organizations concerned with profit. The nerve of people just thinking about themselves – eh! Don't get me started on climate.

The focus, for me, is now on the younger generation, more than it is for me, as I near the next phase – retirement. Life has been fair and good to me; I want life to be fair and good for them. I have a work pension not only a social security pension; my children may not. I have great health care; my children may not. I have access to good food, fresh air and clean water; my children may not. And by "my children" I mean the entire younger generations to come.

Posting about ostomy challenges are likewise important as I have learned a great deal by other people's struggles and victories.

Life is just like that; if there is no wind, row:)K

Oh no, oh no, oh no, I just read that the name "Karen" has become a meme. Maybe I will use my middle name:)L

Hello Karen. 

I too 'like' Donald Trump, because he (and many other politicians throughout the world) provide motivation and abundant material for my expositional rhymes on 'Bullying'.

I am now embarking on my 5th book on this subject and I feel sure that many more politicians and their political 'games' will loom large within it. I take heart, that when Eric Byrne wrote his book 'Games People Play', he made it abundantly clear that (in his view) 'game playing' was basically dishonest, and the only effective way to deal with it was not to take part in the 'games' - but to expose the games for what they are. 

I have penned several rhymes documenting  perspectives on the three present world's 'super-bullies'- Vladimir Putin / Xi Jinping /Donald Trump, along with many more on the world's 'wannaby' bullies. However, I am pleased that  that Donald has fulfilled so many of the classic symptoms of narcissistic bullies which have their reflections in the rest of the human race,. He has therefore, afforded me so much material for my poetic creations on this subject that I do feel a wierd sense of gratitude towards him.  

I will not wiegh down this discussion with volumes of such rhyming verse, but leave you with my latest effort in this regard. (only because you asked to keep the discussion going.) 

Best wishes

Bill

THIS PRESIDENT’S PERSONALITY.

Since this latest President
has been the White House resident,
he has shown the world quite fully
that he’s a narcissistic bully.

As his tweets have been unfurled
he’s shown he wants to rule the world,
and if he cannot get his way
he thinks that someone else should pay.

He feels that only he can know
the way that everything should go,
and therefore, everyone is wrong
if they do not string along.

In many ways, he’s like a child,
who has been spoiled and let run wild
to the extent that he can’t see
beyond the concept of his ‘ME’.

Most world leaders he’s insulted,
which unsurprisingly resulted
in the world perceiving him
as being dangerous - if dim.

He wants to play with the ‘big-boys’,
and bully them with warlike ploys
such as his intimidation
with threats of annihilation.

The way this President behaves
is to treat people like his slaves.
So, all must be subservient
and treat him as omniscient.

All bullies want to dominate,
dictate, control, and subjugate.
Thus, Donald Trump is no different
just because he’s President.

                          B. Withers 2020

Nancy, the despair in your post is gut-wrenching. I get it. But I have noticed over my life that the wheel of fortune keeps spinning around and around, and there is some truth in the cliché 'the higher the pedestal, the harder the fall'. You may find that the past 3 1/2 years have shocked people into making different choices. Our friends in Charleston, SC, tell us that they believe there will be a shift to the left coming from young people; I think we're seeing that in the Occupy movement, as well as in Bernie supporters. Hope so. The rest of the developed world is moving toward a different way of doing things, as you know. Those of us who live outside your borders see a once-great nation that is knee-deep in the muck of its own making, and we are left scratching our heads. Do they not see that they are going to be left behind, we wonder? You see it; hence the despair in your voice. You are right - America is on fire, and Nero is playing the fiddle. But Nero ended badly. The wheel keeps turning...

Truthfully, I am hopeful that enough folks have had enough. But the underlying issues being rerouted by half of all votes is scary. Racism is still such a problem in this country. When we first moved to Raleigh, NC, we were a couple of damned Yanks, both having grown up in NJ and having worked the Manhattan scene for a number of years before opening our own restaurant in South Jersey on a barrier island just north of Atlantic City. Our familiarity with Trump stems from following his unethical business practices and his lack of morals in his personal relationships. We know many folks that have worked for him. No one we know who voluntarily left his employ would ever even consider working for him again. Anywhere. Even at the pleasure of POTUS. We also know folks personally that he has hurt. Trump has been found guilty of fraud and theft of charitable funds, been banned (along with his kids) from ever sitting on the board of any charitable foundation again, as well as having to pay millions in fines (which subsequently were covered by a rich donor). It has been proven in a number of different courts that Trump lies, cheats, and misappropriates funds (like taking money from his foundation for his kid's BS dues and a 60K dollar portrait of himself). But that being said, it is the underlying acceptance of this behavior by so many Americans that I find most disturbing. When Trump flouted his abuse of the tax laws of our country, I actually believed that would alienate most of those who actually became his stalwart base. BTW, America has already been left behind, and we're running double speed to try to catch up. Still, I am determined to remain hopeful for America's future. I'm just not sure how many Americans will be left standing when the dust settles. When did it become so hard to distinguish right from wrong?

Peace

Nancy