Who would choose to bring a kid into this world ?
That's a loaded question. I hope my answers are entertaining at least.
The idea of bringing a child into the world as it is, has many pro's and con's. Technology certainly makes many things much easier than they were, say 50 or more years ago. Everything like diapers, baby monitors, medical care, child car seats, etc, etc. But at the same time, cell phones, tablets, online gaming and social media are turning our children into illiterate, real life (offline) unsocial idiots. Not all of them, but a lot of them.
Our children are generation NOW. They are constantly bombarded by media telling them how to look or feel, instant bullying by social media when it used to be limited to the school yard, access to pornography even though they are too young to comprehend or understand what they are seeing. They get instant gratification from Facebook posts, tweets, snapchat and skype and if they don't get that instant gratification, they have the attention span of a gnat.
Each generation will have this same debate, speaking of "When I was your age, I had to walk to school, uphill, both ways in 2 feet of snow! I didn't have a fancy cellphone or car to take me and I had pack my own lunch! We didn't have Starbucks or Dunkin Donuts or food stores open 24/7! If you didn't eat what was on your plate, you went hungry!"
Most children of this generation will not have to work hard to do anything, or have to hunt and gather food with their parents. Food is in abundance more than it has ever been.
It comes down to how the parent/s are raising them. Parents are not raising their children with the same values most of us were raised with. Children today are taught that if a parent punishes their children with a belt for doing something wrong, that it's abuse and child services should get involved. That little league football doesn't keep score anymore because they want every kid to feel like he/she is a winner. Children are not learning consequenses, responsibility or how to be competitive; to strive to do better in life.
We have more younger, single parents than ever bringing children into this world that don't know how to raise a child. We have parents having children just to milk the system for free money and benifits so they don't have to contribute to society because they feel entitled. "Someone has to pay for my kids to eat, it might as well be Mr. and Mrs. John Q. Taxpayer." and then have the audacity to think it's owed to them and free!
And then, there are some parents, not many, who raise their children to be responsible. To be a better person and treat others with compassion and kindness. That dicipline them properly and then explain to the child why they have to be diciplined. To make the child appreciate and understand things in life that so many others take for granted. Parents that actually love their children.
Long winded, I know but I could go on and on. I would like to bring a child into this world with all of it's pro's and con's. I would like to think I have the mettle to such a challenge to raise a child of intelligence and integrity. But who knows? I may be talking out of my arse again.
To be continued...
well said bain.....bravo
Thanks Hero. There is so much more to say on this subject and cannot possibly be answered in one post. I could honestly have a debate on the subject.
Well said Bain - I could not have put it better myself. As you say, there is a whole lot more to the debate and I hope some more people join in with their views.
I'm curious as to why you asked the question?
I think Bain did a great job answering your question Soulscope. You answered "Demographic" to his question "Why?" Now I'm really curious.
I don't think Mike is trying to treat this as an argument, more of an inquiry. Maybe you witnessed some sort of child abuse or an add on TV about children in third world countries that are in need of assistance. Or maybe you have or are planning to have children of your own.
I'm not going to assume anything. But we are all friends here and I'm sure no one wants to treat the question as an argument. You don't have to answer anything if you don't want to but I'm sure you already know that. Just my 2 cents.
When my wife and I married (53 years ago), she was 18 and I was 19. We debated about children for 3 years before we started our family. We have 3 children,all adult,3 grandchildren, all adult, and 2 greatgrandchildren, both under 6 years old. The reasons we and our children chose to have families are complex. First, we wanted the fulfillment and joy that raising children usually gives to good parents. Second, we recognized that this is a bad world, but if good people don't bring children into this world, it can only get worse. As responsible adults, it became our responsibility, almost a duty, to become the best parents we could and to raise up our children to become the best people they could be. I believe Bill's post about today's children clearly shows that more couples should have followed our example.
Congratulations on the concepts you put forward as your resons to have chldren. I would applaud to idea of thinking more about about the end product and how it fits with a world we would like to see rather than the one we have.
It is my belief that too many people have children simply because they like having sex and do not consider the potential consequences of their actions. Hence, many children enter the world as 'accidents', unwanted because the biological parents have not yet matured past the childlike, selfish stage.
I confess to being biased on such issues, having spent a working lifetime trying to compensate for parental inadequacies.
Note: I think your comment about 'my' post should have been addressed to Bain as I was only agreeing with him!!
From what I've received from so many different mediums the world is very very wrong
Sorry, Bain. In my post I gave Bill credit for your insightful post. I'll be more careful in the future.
No worries. I'm not worried about credit. Just happy someone read the post...lol
Hey Soulscope, I certainly was not looking for an argument but now that I read your last entry, I'm thinking we're not on the same page. The world is whatever we make it; you, me, Bain, Bill, Don and all those who offered some thoughts. We offered these thoughts because you asked a question and we care about the folks who share their thoughts with us. We really care! There's a synergy from our efforts to help each other and sometimes folks thank us because our efforts helped them. We help each other. We respect each other and "listen" with open minds. What's WRONG with that? Granted, we're experiencing a lot of crap these days and there will always be some bad people out there but this world is made up of mostly good people. Lots of them are here.
PS: Thanks, Bain.
Hi DonBrown. I just wanted to mention some similarities besides being ostomates. My wife and I were each 2 years older than you and your wife when we got married almost 55 years ago. You two debated the children issue for about three years. We talked about it for about 3 days. We were blessed with a girl then a boy and they each have a girl and boy. We're happy we made that choice and they told us, more than once, they are also.
I'm passing this on to Soulscope.
Hi, Mike. There's something about being committed to another person for that long that truly turns the two of you into one. My parents were married for 68 years. My older brother and his devoted wife were married for 65 years. She is still my sister and I consider her to be the matriarch of the family. I am close to becoming the patriarch, but so far I have refused to accept that role. My oldest brother lives in California and he travels back to Oklahoma every other year to fill that role but travel gets harder for him every year, at 85 years old. At only 73, and living in Texas, I will be expected to pick it up but my health is not much better. I liked your post about you and your wife. I would say you did and are still doing your part to make the world a better place.
Hey Don, Thanks for sharing your story and thanks so much for your kind words. You've been blessed with a family of loving, caring folks not to mention their longevity.
With all due respect to Soulscope, things are way different from when you and I were young parents. It still took a lot of hard work raising kids back then but the whole concept of family was different. There are many more things that could go wrong with young ones today and, unfortunately, more moms and dads are working more hours are are unable to spent the quality time required to realise that whole, happy, healthy family thing.
That's true, Mike, and I do understand why Soulscape asked her original question. Two of my adult children had to live with me for many years because they couldn't find jobs that paid a living wage, even though they were well qualified. The other child married young to a well-paid software engineer. She finished her degree, became a CPA, and gave that up to be an 8th grade algebra teacher. Their two sons are finding it hard economically. My 3rd grandchild has two little girls and moved to Oklahoma because they were finding it too hard to make a living in Texas. And that only covers the economic reasons. Crime has risen, wars have spread, and politicians are more corrupt. Yes, times are different and it probably does require more commitment and hard work to raise a family today. Still, I believe that good people should do just that to maintain balance or try to improve conditions. Thanks for the reminder, Mike.
Great question and thoughtful responses! The world we are now living in makes your issue urgent. Most people see reproduction and child-rearing as essential functions of life; but they must pause and reflect on the world they send their offspring into. Since the start of civilization people found reasons not to have children, such as disease, poverty, famine or war. Those reasons still exist today, but our populations across the globe are nonetheless expanding.
What would worry me, if I were a prospective parent, is the encroachment of the state into the lives of all families, even though an increasing number of parents have failed in their responsibilities thereby justifying this intervention. Every year we learn that this group or that class has rights; but has anyone here heard of state efforts to support or expand parents rights? When I grew up, the family was the building block of society. Now, it seems, the state is becoming the building block of the family. I would not want to raise children in a world where the state infringes on my rights as a parent. Sadly, it's happening more and more.
The world will be much better off with strong family life, whether traditional or otherwise.
To what aspect of procreation are you questioning?
Your one sentence could encompass many doubts and insecurities regarding the world in which we live in to the nature of the youth in world to the responsibility of becoming a parent which is fraught with worries and concerns of "are we doing it right?" to "my kid is NOT going to be ____ (fill in the blanks)!"
All are legitimate concerns and it's good to consider your choices before deciding even though few do. Many of us think of it as a forgone conclusion while others think it's required of them and others still who think of parenting as a gift we look forward to. Still others don't put any thought into it at all.
When it comes to "What is this world coming to?!!"...many years ago I began to think of what my mother and people her age must think of this world. There were a lot more of them at the time who were born in the twenties and it occurred to me how often in her life has she made that statement yet the world is still turning round and round.
Think of this one person...she was born on an Indian reservation with no running water, no electricity, no telephones and had only seen horse drawn carriages til she was sent to boarding schools to learn how NOT to be an Indian. That was the world she knew and accepted with its own rules and intolerances and values that she lived by without questioning.
Think of everything they survived: she was a child when Wall Street crashed and survived the depression. She remembers the bread lines and having no food at all. She remembers the Oklahoma dust bowl and seeing the farmers packed in their grapes of wrath trucks heading out with all they owned. She watched her brothers headed out to the war in the pacific while she stayed to become Rosie the Riveter.
She remembers hearing the first news reports of the Holocaust as the story unfolded. Then the glory days when our boys came home. She moved me and my sister here to California on a Greyhound bus after the Korean War when the war jobs dried up.
We watched the KKK marching in front of the capitol and bras and draft cards being burnt while our president was shot and his brother who we hoped would change the world but instead we saw our president declaring "I am not a thief!"
we saw the tarmacs filled with coffins every night on the news while she sent her stepson to sign up for the draft. An actor for a president hmmm. Another getting a bj in the Oval Office.
You know what all she's been through since then but let's consider the technology that's advanced in her lifetime. Now here I try to tell her of an app I've downloaded but she has no clue what I mean. I try to show her a picture on my phone but can't let her touch it because she wipes it out every time.
If she had seriously contemplated the shape this world is in I would never have been born by this old world does keep turning round and round and while it's all screwed up it has been before and people will make it right.
I have 3 beautiful children and they have been my greatest joy as well as my deepest heartache and they and their children are all I live for....and my mom.
Very Good and Thoughtful Answer Bain. Soulscoup, whatever has made you skeptical, is a result of your experience, or how you perceive the world. In every generation....or century, for that matter, there were major issues, the made people questions their future, and that of their children. My grandfaterher, left his wife and four children in Russia, when he set out for America. It took him 10 years, to bring them all over. I'm sure they had doubts. After being sick with UC, for 4 years....and then another few years getting use to my ostomy, and then having the final surgery, I had to decide if the quality of my life was good enough to risk bringing children into the world with Crohn's, or UC ( My ex husband had the same disease, so it was a double wammy) We went ahead to have children, who both have IBD. I felt guilty....so did their dad, but they have coped wonderfully, married, have children, and rewarding marriages and careers. They will deal with their future, as we've dealt with ours. Despite it's obvious issues and faults, I see the world as a beautiful miraculous place.....not always perfect, filled with all types of people, not always perfect. We are blessed with individual choices... That's a blessing in itself.
I won't be bringing kids into this workld. My ostomy saw to that.
I'm sorry to hear that.
Not knowing how you feel on the matter I won't throw out platitudes of other possibilities except to say there are some.
Keep the faith.
|NJ Bain wrote:|
I'm curious as to why you asked the question?
You and me both.
7.5 Billlion people on the planet, seems to me a lot of folks have...
maybe we should ask our parents....