Scared of dating with an ostomy

I know this topic has been posted many times...but does anybody have any terrible dating stories about trying to date with a ostomy? I have read about the ones where people don't mind etc..but I feel like those are few any far between. I just wanna know that I am not alone in feeling like I will never meet anyone.  I had numerous hospitalizations over the years and have not dated due to my illness. I almost died twice before finally getting a permanent illeostony in 2018. It was either that or death. Thats how serious. Would really like.to reach out and make some friends. Nobody I know has a ostomy or has ever been as sick as I. People say they understand but they don't. Unless you have been dealt this blow..you can only guess what we go through. I think that is why I am reaching out here. I don't wanna feel pathetic or like I am a leper. I have been told for years by friends and family to reach out to people that can relate. So..here I am.  Please feel free to share with me. I have a lot to share myself..and I think it could be very beneficial. Anyone out here? Drop me a line or two. Would love to hear your journey.

Hi Tiff041, Hopefully you will meet someone on here. I have had my ostomy less than 2 years now but haven't dated yet. I also hope I meet a fellow ostomate. :)

I've only had my bag for a few months now but if a guy is turned off by an ostomy bag, he's not the guy you want anyway. Ostomy bags are really not that huge a deal unless you make it one. From a guy's (remember we're just simple minded idiots) viewpoint, I'll say I'd be more turned off if you didn't say something upfront than waiting until things progressed in the relationship. Same thing with your other "issue" of being a virgin. Just tell the guy, we're almost smart enough to understand and can "slow the approach" so it's not overwhelming for you. Remember, everyone was one once in their life. Of course, if a guy on an ostomy site doesn't realize that you're gonna have one too, that should tell you something right there. Now, everyone on here has a little different story and different "issues" with their story but the story is pretty much the same for all of us. I hope you find the man that's lucky enough to have you, don't settle for less. 

Thank you so much for youre kind words 😘

I could cry lol. Thank you also for the kind words😘

Hi Tiff041 , this is also a problem for guys, at least for me ! I haven't dated any woman since I had my ostomy in 2019. Actually, I did not try and I wouldn't dare to date !! Hope you find someone here 

Why? Are you waiting to find a lady with an ostomy so you feel more comfortable? Just by glancing through this site, there are some stunningly beautiful women that have ostomies. As an adult, any woman or guy that can't "deal" with your ostomy isn't the right person for you, move on. If it's because you feel uncomfortable with your ostomy or health condition, take it slow and start doing things with other people and the dating part will work it's way into the equation. 

I agree that there are many beautiful women here but  I did not have luck to meet a woman near me on this site. Distance is the major problem !

Don't be ashamed of what saved you, if a man or woman doesn't like it then they're not the one, if they can't handle that your a virgin so be it screw them everyone has to start somewhere and I'm dam right sure they where once one too. It may seem hopeless but get yourself out there enjoy your self, people do say life begins at 40 anyways. 

Thanks for the kind words 😘

Thank you for the sweet words Samantha 😘

Hi Tif,  You've taken a really great first step, and r eached out on this site..   I discovered it years ago, and didn't think I had much need for it...   I'm Marsha   now, 73, and have had my ileostomy since I was a teen of 15...   Check out my other " posts" over the years, and you'll get to r ead my whole story..  I've been  through it all,   having had ulcereative colitis for 4 years, prior to the emergency surrgery..   I was out of school, in and out of hospitals,  on all different meds, and fin ally, when there was nothing else ( but death) my parents agreed to the surgery...    I  was a bird let o ut of a cage, and   managed through the rest of  my teens and dating,  but  married young to a man, who also had an ileostomy.   (  met him through the ostomy association)..   Although we were married for 24  1/2 years, and had two sons together,   the ostomies were not enough to keep us together....    So in my 40's I was single again, and back to dating..   To be honest,   the ostomy was the least of my problems..   I am short, and  had gained a lot of weight after having kids..   I found that  men prefered,  taller thinner women  ( blonds?)  but that didn't stop me from being out there socially.   I joined singles groups, went to parties, to concerts, to social events and  focused on looking  for men who did find me interesting, attractive, funny..... I even learned how to make t he first moves ( letting  him know I was in terested),   and gave no thought to the " ostomy"   until I was actually on a date..    When you get over the fear of " wh at might happen",  you'll find that it's not as frightening as you thought it would be.  Take what Al had to say to heart, and train y ourself to value you're worth.....and if I guy rejects you because of your ostomy, he wasn't the one for you.   My rule of thumb, back when I was a " kid", was that If I wanted a guys hands, below my neck ( it was called making out),  Then I was  going to be prepared " to tell"..   It worked back then, and it  still works now.   These days,   it's just sooner...   No...I'm  not a slut,   just old....and want to enjoy the time I have left..   Datin g at this age , has also given  me insight into insecurities that " older" men have......  some of their parts don't  function as well as t hey did in their youth...  And so they need kindness and un derstanding  from the women in their life...   Someone echoed my f eelin gs.....   don't b e ashamed of what saved your life...   For me, my ostomy is a  " badge of survival",,   My  weight  ( and other scars) are more of an issue for me than my ostomy...     Best of luck to y ou....and all the  other " mates" out there...    Marsha  

Hi Tiff  , my heart goes out to you because I , like most people on here have had that Crisis Point  😱😱😱 where we look int the mirror after getting out of the shower . The mirror over the sink just lets you see the part above your Stoma. You give a little , whats the word ...guffaw ( as Missus Google  😜)  and think , or say .  " Hey , you look pretth good for someone who had  Broomsticks for legs and chicken wings for arms . You are proud of how much better you are   and THENNNN... you make the mistake of looking in the full length mirror and (  Guys and Girls both ) you want to cry when you see that your guts are now on the outside and you shit in a plastic baggie  !!! All day and all night you are full of shite .at first you want to crawl back to your bed and curl up in a ball and die as soon as possible !!!  Right ??  I was about 25 and finally in College aftet saving enough with my Brother to get an apt ( came here from The Bronx , to The Bronx from the wild West of Ireland  after High School .)  .

   You can be obsessive about your Stoma, about food and hydration etc etc....and tis is Before worrying about   what he or she might say when you expose the Shitty part of your life.  I Never once felt a need to go to a Doctor  , was never sick a day until zulcerative Colitis . Now I suddenly had this Ball and Chain attached to my belly   , well that's what it felt like ....

Falling asleep ...back later Tiff .  It gets better  , give it time . . When you finally do get some big hairy brute in your bed , cozy under the covers and snuggled up to his hairy chest  you will say to yourself ...it was worth the wait  ....or snuggled up with a Lady , whatever puts a smile on your face  ❤❤🤗.    I never talk about this but I will tell you  ( Y'all out there .) That I had not experienced a woman's love , physical or emotional for about 15, 20 years ...No  Shit  !!!  When I held Kitty close as she snuggled up to my hairy chest  and she giggled because my chest hair tickled her nose , at that moment I said to myself   and to Kitty ..." It was worth the wait , to feel such true love after all those years alone , surrounded by people but still alone .

Keep the Faith Tiff and don't despair . Most guys , as with Women , are regular decent compassionate people . If the thought of an Ostomy scares them inside then that's OK . They are allowed to be a bit afraid ....Damn !!! That's a bag of liquid Shite hanging off your belly . I do Not resent anyone who is put off or scared by that , it's just hunan nature . We are after all,  Human with Human fears and anxieties   so I wouldn't be angry if a woman just told me she could not handle it , some can and some cannot  so I say , give them a break and send them on their way with a smile rather than a grimace .

Definitely Pumpkin Time now .

Nighty Nite all ..🤗☘💚

Eamon .

I will take everything you said to heart. Thank you very much for writing to me 😘

Wow..thank you for the response. I guess I figure who woukd want me when there are so many beautiful (and now younger) women out there that are not going to the bathroom from their stomach. Who is gonna fund this attractive? I was told that I should probably just find love with a person tar also has a bag. At least we are in the same boat. It is not just that though. I am also on SSD due to the severity of my Crohn's. I have to nap or blue down quite frequently through the day. I am constantly worn out and never have any energy. I can't just go out on the town constantly or do many active things. Its like geez..who is gonna want a 40 year old woman with no life, on disabilty, AND a stoma. I just feel like my options for love are extremely limited. And lets not forget my age makes it near impossible to ever even entertain the thought of children. I can't physically now anyways. What do I really have to offer someone ya know? I have almost resigned myself to living with my mother (75) and my two cats. It just feels like uts gonna be a lonely life. I dont voice thus often. Nobody knows I feel this way. I just know nobody is going to understand 😔

1) you have to get you right. 
2) you may be more beautiful than a lot of women that don't poop out their stomach, or that do. Beauty isn't all about looks.

3) your age is meaningless except to you. 
4) having kids is the least of your concerns right now. Any guy will understand that with your health conditions that you having kids isn't going to happen. However, if it gets to a point of wanting kids, there's always adoption. 
5) what do you have to offer someone? You have YOU.

6) Put you first and do something everyday that makes you happy. 

Alex t..I could kiss you😘. I think I really needed to hear that. Like I said I don't voice my displeasure over life hardly at all. Not only do I know nobody who completely understands..but I also know it is not very becoming or attractive to complain and do the woe is me. I guess that is why I am here. At least people GET it here. it feels like a safe place.

I know you are right deep down. It is just I feel very isolated, especially not being able to work. I live with my mother and I honestly don't know what I would do without her. My father passed away in 2009 from Agent Orange exposure problems related to his time in Vietnam.   My dad was there for a lot of my sickness but now it has been put on my Mom since then. And it seems that I got sicker after my Father passed. Mom has neverending empathy..but even she urged me to get online here and try and find someone who can relate to me.

It is just..I sometimes wonder if I should just give up ya know? Like it is hard enough to meet people in general.. Than to add all these complications. I guess the only thing I can do is stay strong and Pray every night that maybe God will send someone my way.  I strongly believe in Prayer. So maybe I will try that and place it in the Lord's hands 🙏. Once again..thank you so very much for responding. 😘

Hi Tiff ,   I should have mentioned  the obstacles that conspired to make my time with Kitty  a great victory for boyh of us . 

   First off , my   house is in the Wild and Wonderful West of Ireland .  I am a Citizen of Ireland  a US  citizen so I can travel freely back and forth . I lived in San Francisco for years and really grew up in Ca .  I went back to live with and take care of my Mom after my Dad died . I was quite ill at the time so the slow pace in my home town was perfect for me .

  After we lost my Mom I stripped the house to the foyr walls and rebuilt it ...with my own two little hands  !! 😜🤗.  Since then I spent most summers on Ca , half and half roughly .  

   I hooked up with Kitty while I was in Ireland , via the Internet . We both signed up to another Ostomy site . Kitty had an Ileo after Bbreast Cancer treatment , radiation destroyed her intestines and wound up with  " Short Bowel "  . She gallantly overcame the fact that she had only about 16  inches of Small intestine left . She could eventually eat again normally  . She got her Masters and became an SLP , Speech and Language  Pathologist , Speech and Language Therapist . She settled in San Jose ( Silicon Valley ) with her two kids , both are ADHD  and have Autism to some degree . She got work in the school district and helped so many little kids speak and communicate with the world . To them she was Smiling Miss Kitty . I have hindreds of photos and her Dimpled chin and big happy grin are  featured in every pic . 

   Kitty beat the Breast Cancer and Short Bowel  and her Kiddies were her whole life   , her own kids and all the little sweeties that she helped .  I used to go to the school sometimes and they all loved her so much . She arranged for iPads for children who couldn 't speak  and they finally got to communicate with everyone .  

   Kitty  texted me out of the blue  while I was on the way to Reno for the Hot August Nights car show .. My Nephews and my Brother are car nuts . ( 1969 Charger  😱😱.   ) . We spoke and texted for three sid hours  . We arranged our first date for  Monday . Kitty came to pick me up at my Brother's house . Believe it or not we discovered that her only Sister lived just ten minutes from my Brother's house in San Mateo  !!!  Remember , when we first hooked up on the Internet   I was  and actually 6,400 Miles away    . We suddenly discover that her Sister and my Brother lived just ten minutes away from each other  !!!  🤗😜. 

     Kity visited me in Ireland three times and I spent about half the year with her and the kiddies . My time at home was spent getting my house finished  and preparing for Kitty and the kids to join me in Ireland . We were planning to spend her Summers in Ireland with  me and her two kiddies .  

    Kitty loved my big family and met them all ( 7 boys , 3 Girls  !! ) . It was instant love  for everyone she met  and everyone loved her madly !!   She was so looking forward to bringng the kids to Ireland to meet everyone .   I could hardly believe how my  life had changed . I went from doing everything alone of with a family member  I suddenly had a readymade family !!!  

    I don't want to make this a sob story of misery  but a celebration of life's possibilities  and of how your life can suddenly make an amazing turn  that you could never have predicted .  We had three wonderful years together and I'm happy for having that . Happy that  such an amazing woman loved me unconditionally , as I loved her .  

   If this wonderful experience  could have suddenly dropped into my lap  , out of the blue then there is hope for everyone . Just chat to as many people as possible and when that connection comes into view you will feel it in your bones and your heart .  Your instincts will tell you what to do .

     I may be going to Ireland just after Christmas and I will bring  Kitty with me , some of her precious ashes  to be with my Mom and Dad  at the top of a hill overlooking the green hills and mountains that surround our cemetary . They never had the pleasure of meeting Kitty in life but they would have loved her just as much as everyone else . My Mom always worried that I was alone and never found that special lady . I visit her resting place and often have those little chats to let her know that I'm ok and I found that special woman who made my life whole , finally . 

Gotta go now before I start the waterworks  !! 

Stay strong Tiff , never give up  ☘💚🤗

Oh please, enough with the sob stories.  Most of us would have died too if it weren't for this last ditch effort to save our lives.  What Dr. would choose to give a patient an ostomy?  Unless they had too.

Dating.  As I've said wrap a "OstomySecrets" band around yourself and go for it.  If a guy can run a marathon ora gal swim, you can say hi and let the the man know that you have a medical issue and NOTHING ELSE. "At this time I'd like to keep it private".  Chat (on-line a heck of a lot more (and preferably with another at the same time ((eggs in one basket)) and meet w friend & eventually before 2nd date (alone) chat online about your "medical condition".  He'll either run for the hills or my bet , care even more.  You win  

Moral of story.  Get your sorry ass out there and meet people!  Of course it's scary, it sure is for healthy people too!

Hey  Fred  , wouldn't be great if we were all " tough guys/ ladies  like yourself  !! I I thought you would have used the brilliant line  , " get over it you crybaby " . That always works , snap out of it you pussy , get a life "  .  Different people react very differently to the trauma we have all been through , don't you know that by now !!?  Everyone on this te has earned the right to nitch and moan ....this is one of the features that make people  join and contribute  their Honest Thoughts , their fears  and even some worries that you seem to find trivial !! . 

  As my saintly , brave and , even heroic Mother would say .  We all have our crosses to bear  but being human means that we carry those burdens differently . 

    I had people very close to me who believed my Doctor when he said that there was no  reason why I should be having serious pain  , long term .  The inside of my remaininh piece of Anal Canal and Rectum  looked kike Raw Chopped meal  !!   The Doctors lie  was believed by some people around me  and the scepticism  was palpable . I couldn't drop my drawers and bend over so these people slcould do an inspection or  bring them to the bathroom to see the blood dripping out of my butt . The deleterious emotional  baggage that comes with an Ostomy   the Shit Stigma attached to it can be very hard for some people .

   People here need encouragement  and positive feedback   regarding the issues and problems they face 

So Dude ....give people a break and keep your tough love advice out of the conversation ...please .  ☘

Eamon .

Hi Tiff , I meant to say that Kitty had an Ileostomy  after losing much of her large and small intestine to Radion forBreast Cancer .  Kitty was bborn with Club Foot  condition . She had leg lengtening surgery and many surgeries when she was younger .  When we would have to walk a long way she had a light wheelchair ...her Chariot I called it . 😜😎. We overcame all these problems and her anxieties  as well as my own .  I loved wheeling around the parks and the streets of Dublin in her Chariot , we had so much fun  .  I must say that it was very liberating to sleep with a woman who also had an Ostomy . If I had a leak she would  help change the sheets and I did likewise , all in good humor and we knew there was a warm huggy cuddle when we got back to bed abd  dozed off in easch other's arms . . I actually preferred  that Kitty had an Ostomy .  However you cannot decide who to love , your heart does that  so you really have nothing to say about it , just accept it graciously when it happens . 

  So hang in there and write to lots of people , not Novels ( like me !!! 🤯. Short  notes to tell people who you are .  Might take a while . I met Kitty when I was almost  60  !!! 

Keep the faith Tiff  ☘💚...and bitch and moan as much as you need to , you have earned  that right  !! .

I never ment to not use this forum for discussion,but I rarely see any common sense approach to solving the dilemma.  10 years with out a date is unacceptable.  We all must take responsibility for our actions thereof.

  Join a church, a civic organization, volunteer at a food bank.  All of Wich I have done.  Some in each organization know.  Sometimes tough love is good.  Thanks Fred

Hi Fred,  Everyone has a  story, and some people share it easily, and some don't .  Some live through the tought times, and have supportive family and friends around them , and some don't..    And some come through the surgery, ready to  fight their way back to a  " normalcy" that they don't always feel..   The best part of this group, is that we'v e all e xperienced the body change associated with having some kind of ostomy..   For some the transition was relatively easy, an d for others, it was a " living nightmare"...   When people share t heir stories,   they are vulnerable,  and although  you may have had good intentions ( tough love/ shake up someone/  or try to be a realist)  it didn't  come acrooss that way..     There's a big difference b etween  doing good works  (  v olunteer, )   and revealing what one fears is their worst deficit, to another person ..      I  can't speak for others , but most members here bring an attitude  of sincere care, acceptance, good advice, a nd friendship.   " What  you  offered  was a " kick in the butt", stop sniveling, an d get a life"   Where is your compassion for the struggle that some people go through learning to live with the  memories and  changes  they've had to endure?    Your response to Magoo's " repremand"  was  equally upsetting and arrogant...   Thanks  Magoo, for you support a nd kind common sense,  and to Tif and others who are struglling with specific issues, that others on this site do support and un derstand your   journey..    Even  those of us who  " thought" they had mastered living with the changes, find that new and different challenges can pop up, further along life's path...   "live and learn"....doesn't put a time, or date of what has to be accomplished when.    Marsha    

Hi Marsha ,  thank you for  your wise and kind words Marsha.  I have experienced that kind of offensive ..." get on with it ...get over yourself .....just clise your eyes and you"ll get sleep '" .  As I said in another post   , my Surgeon once told  a relative that I had no reason to be in pain , my surgeries were finished etc  etc .  I had chronic pain in lower belly and inside the butt for years .  For this reason I sometmes got the ...get over it  treatment .  I could not share those horrible feelings  , the pain  and the emotional scars  that followed me for years .  I get really pissed when people who should know better are so thoughtless  in dealing with other people's  feelings .   If a person is seriously depresses  the last thing they need to hear is , get over it  and pull yoyrself together . 

   I once  experienced a shocking reality  , being within arms reach of a very dedperate young woman  at the worst possible moment in her short life .  When my butt felt a bit better I would head off on my mountain bike , across the Golden Gate Bridge and far into the Marin Headlands (  where the beautif Beach with the  waves crashing  ) . It was a  truely spectacular morning , typical Fall weather , 75..80 degrees (  San Francisco real Summer is from Sept to Christmas . ) . I would leave around  6AM  and  ride back over the GG  around 9 AM . I was at the North Tower when I saw her  , she was standing on the outside  of the railing on the Western  side .  Her hair was flying straight up in the air  with the updraft  created by the tower .  I stood there for , I'm not sure , 15...20 minutes  talking to her , trying to get her to talk to me , begging her to take my hand  and we could go for coffee and achat ...nothing can be that bad ...etc etc . 

   I've wanted to write about the experience in depth but the short version . The bridge was totally empty that morning , Sunday I think so the tourists were still in bed .  A woman jogger apptoached and I told her to get the bridge pattol and coast huard , I wanted to watch  and keep track of her if she jumped   to guide the Coast Guard .  He station is near the bridge and I coild see then scrambling into the rescue boat . It's around 300 feet so survival would be unlikely , some have survived and as soon as they were healed after a miraculous recovery went right back and jumped again !! . 

    As I reached out I was afraid to grab her in case I mihht proboke her . I could have grabbed the big coat she wore  but she would have just slipped out of it .

  She was standing straight and not making a sound . She turned a little but I never did see her face . She suddenly let go off the painters raining  and held her arms out like she was surrendering hersf to whatever God she believed in ???   Her arms straight out  as if on the Cross  and balanced for maybe 30 seconds  and then she just lifted her feet  off  the rail  and she  aas on her back looking up with her hair flying in the wind , her long coat flying in the wind .  What struck me was  the fact that she said nothing , never screamed  or made a sound .  As her body crashed into the freezing water  the CoSt Guard Cutter  just got to the Tower . She was floating and her arms were flailing a little  but hitting water at that speed  is like hitting concrete. . All her internal Organs were severely damaged . She survived the night and the  California Highway Patrol  called me the next day .  I just confirmed how she came to jump   and  told me she had just died in the hospital . 

   So  Fred , sometimes all people need to do is moan and complain and cry about how shitty their life is at that moment ,,  sometimes they judt need to be heard and have their pain acknowleged   , to have their existance validated . Tough love may be a technique  that may sometimes help but a  sympathetic shoulder  to cry on or  a few kind words  is a better way to to show the person that they are not alone . 

Eamon   ☘💚🐻....Chill ....

Thank you so much for that story. It was the most heartfelt. It seens like you and kitty were so lucky to have found one another. I am so sorry for your loss 🙏. I thibk I needed to hear that at just the right moment. Btw..way off topic but...Ireland is in my top 3 places I wish to see before I die. Ok back to it...thanks again for that  amazing story. ❤

See..I knew I would eventually get a post telling me to "get over it" and quit being a baby etc. I came here to voice my thoughts where hopefully people would understand. Luckliy, I found two that really took the time to share their experiences ( M& M). I am normally not one to share those feelings..so I came here to express it. At least I know there are people who understand ❤

Fred- I also hear what you are saying. I dont need the tough love thing. But thanks for your viewpoint as well.  But please understand..sometimes people need to do the woe is me thing. It dosnt mean all we are doing is bitching about life. It is called venting. Something that 98% of people do on here. So please..have some empathy for your fellow ostomate❤

Ok..that officially opened the teargates 😢. You sound like such a wonderful human being to try and help your fellow man (woman like that). It is so nice  to know there are people out there willing to step out of their life and help someone who is in need. I am so sorry for what happened. 

Sometimes all we need is a little kindness. It can go a very long way.

Hi Magoo/ Eamon...   I've been r eading your posts for years,  a nd although I've also posted,   I never did ( Like) anyone's post, a nd I'm sorry n e ver to have reached out to you personally...   just to say Hi.       When I found this site,  I was a bit arrogant , thinking that after 40+  y ears of having an ostomy, I didn 't really need support...   Silly me..   I'm human..  And although I spent a lot of time  in ostomy support groups ( right after surgery) and  I was married to a man  who  also had an ostomy,   I found that I had other issues             , that the the people on this site helped me deal with.   I also foun d that  helpin g others in  need of support,  is one of t he best ways of helping yourself..     When we moved from B rooklyn, to our  house here in NJ,   I welcomed the  anonymity, that came with new friends and neighbors, who didnt know me as " Lilly and Nat's daughter, Marsha,  you know the one who was sick, and now has an ostomy"   Seriously folks.....that became my " name" and how I was introduced to o thers..   Being in a new place, where no  one knew my story,  was wonderful.....for a time..   Then when things happnened....my husband or I had medical issues, I had this " big secret" burried in me...   What felt so good at t he begin ning, didn 't feel so good anymore..  And so,  I contacted some people, joined a group out  here, and then tried to start up another more local ostomy group.   That didn't happen ,   but it did  begin to get me out of t he new isolation closet I had made for myself.    Not long after, I found this group, and I've touched t he lives of Ostomates....arounnd the country, and around the world.   And when I flew off to visit my kids in Australia, I b rought a suitcase full of ostomy supplies, to give to the Queensland Ostomy group, who was sending the supplies off to Papua New Guine.....where peoplle  with ostomiess, had no supplies, or medical insurance with which to purchase them..   And that's how I met Janet....an  ostomate herself, who  started an ostomy association in PNG....and does all the volunteer work herself.....meeting with and fitting patients with the appropriate donated supplies...  If you're on Facebook, look up t he association, and meet Janet Yaki.....      Being a member here, supporting our members....volunteering my time, to write to others,   has enriched my life , and reading  the stories of others, puts my past in  perspective... I'm not alone....you're not alone...we are a community, that crosses state and country lines...   I'm grateful to be here a nd to be a part of what  we do...   Marsha

Could NOT have said it better. Thank you, Marsha 😘

This is an entirely different subject.....but  it's for Eamon ( Magoo) Tif, and anyone else interested...    Just to let you know Tif ( Magoo)   that Ireland is very much on my bucket list as well..   But I'm well past the ability to do the regular on the bus/ off the bus, day after day  tours that are offered, and can't afford a private driver..   I'd do one of the car rental/ drive your own tours,  but " I don't do THAT side of the Road, driving...   So I had the bright idea, that maybe 4  0f us  could split the cost of the car & tour, and have Eamon join us as a tour guide/   driver ( or we hire a driver....   If more people are interested,  we could arrange for a van..   I'm fairly flexible.....and would love to do a " modified" trip....  not to be up all that early, and not to be on the road every day....    Eamon,  if you're going to go to Ireland in the summer ( and covid restrictions are lifted )   would you be interested?     We/ I can re post this   as a separate post, if anyone was really interested....   Maybe Rits?    and others...    I know other people  have arranged get togethers within the country, an d others h ave travelled abroad to meet up..   With good plans, this could  work out...    Let me know what you think...   Marsha