A TWO–PIECE split BAG TIP.

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209
Bill
Apr 01, 2024 8:09 am

A TWO–PIECE split BAG TIP.
 
For those who use a two-piece set
for your stoma, I should let
you know what I have now found out
so, you may know what it’s about.

Some of you have complained of smell.
Well, as far as I can tell
the bags are fairly flimsy so
here’s something you ought to know.

I use my bags six weeks or more
before I throw them out’ the door
so, with any weaknesses I find
I hope you will bear this in mind. 

Two-piece systems are quite splendid
partly because they are intended
for us to use them many times
so, with frugality, it chimes.

But, I have found a problem there
for though I treat it with great care,
the bag splits imperceptibly
along the ring, so I don’t see.

I only know this when the split
has got so big, I notice it
and I presume these splits have been
coming gradually, unseen.

If this is so, then I deduce
that these bags were of no use
to stop the smells when splits were small 
and I did not see them at all.

So, if you think you have a leak
I’d urge you just to take a peek
at that plastic round the rim,
where I think stinks and splits begin. 

Of course, that might not be the source
and there’s a chance I might be wrong,
if so,...keep looking for the pong!

                                                            (continued->) 

A TWO-PIECE split BAG TIP (continued)

This next part will be postulation,
not without some speculation
and that’s because I wish to find
a cause... as I’m that way inclined.

These splits occur in the same place
and so I think that I should face
the fact that there’s some wear and tear
going on somewhere down there.

The plastic is quite flimsy, so
within my mind, I feel I know
that friction could contribute to
a split occurring out of view.

When moving the bag off and on
I have found it sine qua non    (necessary)
to be very careful, for
it pulls the plastic bag much more.

But,  this may not be what is wrong
as friction can cause splits and pong
because the bag sticks to my skin
right at that place of underpin.

This means that, as I move about 
the skin and bag moves in and out
causing wear and tear down there
whereas it can’t be found elsewhere.

This could create a weakness and
the flimsy plastic can’t withstand
that type of stress, which in the end
will cause a split in it my friend.

I’ve contemplated wear and tear
and so I thought I ought to share
the fact that these bags seem to split
in the one place, I can’t see it.


                                                B. Withers 2024

aTraveler
Apr 01, 2024 3:40 pm

Are you saying you use a bag for 6 weeks before removing it? How long is the baseplate kept on?

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infinitycastle52777
Apr 01, 2024 5:43 pm

Maybe the length of wear is too long and the bag breaks down? I change my entire 2-piece every 3 days as per my ostomy nurse's teachings. I don't ever have splits and rarely have leaks.

Bill
Apr 01, 2024 6:21 pm
Reply to aTraveler

Hello aTraveler.
Thank you for your question(s).
The 6 weeks (& more) I mentioned, needs to be put in context of never having any output go into the bag. This is because I irrigate every evening, so there is virtually no output during the day. What little out put there is occasionally, is caught in a device that fits over the stoma but in the bag.
The second question is also not quite as straightforward as your question might suggest:
I have two baseplates that I made myself to suit my own circumstances. One is for irrigation (every evening) and the other is for daytime use, which accommodates the DIY device and the bag. This is what some people might call a 'belt & braces' approach, because it is a double safety net which of which, the bag has never been called into practical action. 
The two systems are 'swapped' (& thoroughly cleaned) both evening and morning.
Because the baseplates are semi-permanent devices, they have lasted me for years. The bags and the irrigation sleeves tend to be changed at approximately 5-6 week intervals. This is not entirely necessary, as they used to be cleaned and returned to service. However, I felt that cleaning them with bleach put the stoma at a slight risk, so I now clean them with a disinfectant/detergent and change them at the intervals stated. 
The reason for my post was that I thought it would be useful for some people to know that there is a potential weakness in the bags splitting. But, before they split so that it is noticeable, they are likely to get miniscule holes/splits, that might be an alternative source of smell, other than a leak from the wafer adhesion. 
I hope that this explanation goes some way to answering your question.
Best wishes

Bill 

Bill
Apr 01, 2024 6:38 pm
Reply to infinitycastle52777

Hello Infinitycastle.

Thankyou for your reply to this post. You are quite right that (according to instructions), I use my bags and sleeves way past the recommended times. This is despite the fact that they are free and on prescription, so  I could change them with similar intervals to those used by you and most others.
Interestingly, I too don't 'suffer' with leaks (or splits). Because my baseplates are so robust and I only noticed the splits when I removed the bags.
Indeed, as I have pointed out to aTraveler, experience tells me that I don't really need bags at all, but I like to use them as a second line of defence, in case the day comes when my luck runs out and I have sufficient output that needs a bag to catch it.
My post was simply drawing attention to a potential weakness from wear and tear which may, on occasions be a source of unacceptable smell.
This might be particularly pertinent in those cases where there have been reports of bags being manufactured with materials that seem to be inferior/flimsier than their previous ones. . 
Best wishes

Bill  



 
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infinitycastle52777
Apr 01, 2024 6:56 pm
Reply to Bill

Did I understand what you said, as saying you don't need to wear a bag at all? How does that work? I agree that wear and tear can cause problems with bags, especially if they are already potentially weak bags. My bags don't really have that issue; I think they are fairly well made. And I don't wear them long enough for them to deteriorate. I do see your point in your poems. And again, I do enjoy your poetry.

Lee

Bill
Apr 01, 2024 7:25 pm
Reply to infinitycastle52777

Hello Lee.
Thanks for your feedback>
The not needing bags is quite simple:

I irrigate every evening which means that I have either no output or a miniscule amount during each day. Attached to my own (daytime) baseplate is a screw lid which protects the stoma and has the capacity to catch all the potential daytime output (which is next to nothing. So far, none of the output has been sufficient to overspill into the bag, which is why I believe I could get away with not having any bags at all.

This belief is supported by the fact that for years I used to wear a stoma plug during the day and did not need to wear a bag as well. Unfortunately, stoma plugs have been withdrawn from the marketplace.
Also, I had a stoma prolapse, which meant that I could not use them anymore anyway. This prompted me to rethink my stoma management and I came up with the present solution to suit my new needs.
I hope this helps in your understanding of my not really needing to use bags at all. (They are just a failsafe device). 
Best wishes

Bill 

infinitycastle52777
Apr 01, 2024 9:50 pm
Reply to Bill

Thank you, that does explain it somewhat. You must have a colostomy instead of an ileostomy. I don't fully understand irrigation and how that works. I don't think that is an option for me with an ileostomy. I have output throughout the day usually. You mentioned a stoma plug, what on earth is that and doesn't that back things up if they wanted to come out? Thanks for trying to educate me. And thanks for your patience. I don't claim to know everything or the ins and outs of different kinds of ostomies. I am willing to learn, though. So as long as you explain things, I will try to learn from your answers.

Lee

Jayne
Apr 02, 2024 12:28 am
Reply to Bill

Bill, when I initially used a two-piece following the implantation of TIES whilst it was in its initial healing phase and the adaptor was first taken off - I did indeed encounter a hairline split in the concertina part of the bag which adhered to the base plate flange... and it happened on two different brands. I would suggest it is a matter of design weakness/possibly storage - product date... rather than time of deployment by the patient user.

 

So much so I returned the carefully washed and photographed product to both manufacturers.

 

Needless to say, one did not receive any informative feedback.

 

Perhaps your own pursuit of what you have defined may result in a more investigative exchange with your supplier!

 

Good luck

 

BW

Jayne

Bill
Apr 02, 2024 6:50 am
Reply to infinitycastle52777

Hello Lee.
You are right - I have a colostomy and people with ileostomies are said not to be able to irrigate. However, if you are interested in the technique there are some very instructive videos on you tube.

The stoma plug is like a tampon for stomas and there is a picture of one on my profile. They really only work with irrigation and virtually no output afterwards.. which is why bags become unnecessary.
Best wishes

Bill

Bill
Apr 02, 2024 7:03 am
Reply to Jayne

Hello Jayne.
Thanks for your reply to this post.
Sometimes I share what I have found out with suppliers. However, I usually correspond via email or the telephone. What I have found is that if they are at all interested, then they will suggest sending a 'sample' of what I am saying to them. This has never happened!  I therefore believe that their correspondence is quite often  a straightforward public relations exercise, rather than a genuine desire to learn from the pragmatic experiences of those who use their products.
It follows, that I also think that sharing our thoughts on a site like this, is much more likely to be useful to those who maybe genuinely interested in what we have to say on these matters. 
Because most of my essential stoma gear is self-made, I could probably be completely independent of other manufacturers. However, I do understand that many other people are not that into DIY to the same extent ,  so it can be useful to share ideas, successes, and failures.
Best wishes

Bill