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Covid Fatigue or Just Ugly Human Syndrome?


Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:35 pm
"This is the best website for people with an Ostomy, hands down. So much understanding. Everyone should join."
lovely wrote:

Several have mentioned asking for keys to handicap rest rooms. where I live the doors are not locked. Why do they lock them ? I would think if you had to wait on a key it may be too late sometimes.

A very good question, Lovely! Maybe they're guarding the Crown Jewels in the loo! Perfect place to hide them - who would ever think of looking there? The notion of guarding the washroom is so utterly absurd it beggars belief!

Laurie

Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:58 pm

Just another perspective told to me by the restaurant owner on the first level of my building.  He said he could write a book about what happens in the loo.

They have to lock them because more often than not, "street" people will use the room for bathing, changing, shooting up, sleeping, and for intimate reasons. Before he started locking them he would have to get a security guard to come and entice the people out - one time he had to break the door down. Yes, sometimes there were more than one in the rooms! So, the easiest, cleanest and safest option is to just lock them - for use by their customers only. Word on the street gets around quickly. K

MeetAnOstoMate - 26,431 members
Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:08 am

Hi gang,

Good conversation. I'll just throw in a few tidbits to keep it going. First the locking the bathroom thing.......having to ask for a key is definitely a pain in the ass, and some are embarrassed or feel a bit ashamed to ask. But on the flip side......as someone who's both cleaned restrooms early in my working history and frequently had an urgency to use said bathrooms.....there is no one answer that works in all situations. As my Sis stated above you'd be amazed at how people treat restrooms. Would you rather have to ask for a key.....or have full access to a bathroom that has no toilet paper, soap, towels and pee or crap all over the place? I don't see an easy way to fix this one.

Teaching folks about handicaps not only being physical........the problem isn't unique to Canada, so the solution should work everywhere. But what's being missed here is the fact that those who would pay attention to such education are not the people who are causing the problem. I think that if the idiot who said " you don't look handicapped" could even be convinced to take the training, he wouldn't care to learn what was being taught or even care. I'm just saying the hard part isn't getting the message out.....it's getting those who need to learn....to want to learn.

Lastly, thinking about the idiot who questioned her being handicapped.......not to stick up for the ass......but there ARE a lot of perfectly normal, non-handicapped people who use handicap facilities (because they're usually cleaner and roomier), so although she actually was handicapped......the odds are pretty good that someone using those facilities that wasn't obviously physically handicapped might really not be handicapped at all. Just saying there are more folks guilty of contributing to this problem than those who doubt one's being handicapped. 

Regards,

Bob

Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:56 am

On the subject of KEYS:

Here in the UK there is a system whereby disabled people can apply for a key which fits all the toilets for disabled people. They call it a 'RADAR' key for some obscure reason.  I thought "What a good idea!" and got one for myself. Now, I'm not one to complain, but this key is for a mortice lock and is much larger than any that I have for my doors at home. It's a similar size to the ones we used to have for opening the old oak church doors and old prison cells.  To be lugging such a thing around with you all day and everyday would be a handicap in itself. I was so relieved when I started irrigating and had no further need for it.

Best wishes

Bill 


Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:57 am
w30bob wrote:

Hi gang,

Good conversation. I'll just throw in a few tidbits to keep it going. First the locking the bathroom thing.......having to ask for a key is definitely a pain in the ass, and some are embarrassed or feel a bit ashamed to ask. But on the flip side......as someone who's both cleaned restrooms early in my working history and frequently had an urgency to use said bathrooms.....there is no one answer that works in all situations. As my Sis stated above you'd be amazed at how people treat restrooms. Would you rather have to ask for a key.....or have full access to a bathroom that has no toilet paper, soap, towels and pee or crap all over the place? I don't see an easy way to fix this one.

Teaching folks about handicaps not only being physical........the problem isn't unique to Canada, so the solution should work everywhere. But what's being missed here is the fact that those who would pay attention to such education are not the people who are causing the problem. I think that if the idiot who said " you don't look handicapped" could even be convinced to take the training, he wouldn't care to learn what was being taught or even care. I'm just saying the hard part isn't getting the message out.....it's getting those who need to learn....to want to learn.

Lastly, thinking about the idiot who questioned her being handicapped.......not to stick up for the ass......but there ARE a lot of perfectly normal, non-handicapped people who use handicap facilities (because they're usually cleaner and roomier), so although she actually was handicapped......the odds are pretty good that someone using those facilities that wasn't obviously physically handicapped might really not be handicapped at all. Just saying there are more folks guilty of contributing to this problem than those who doubt one's being handicapped. 

Regards,

Bob

Good points. You and Karen make excellent points about needing to lock the washroom door; I don't know how to solve that one either. Hopefully not with a ten pound key, as Bill alluded to.


I still think that an education campaign about invisible disabilities is worth pursuing. I think most people want to do the right thing - they don't always understand what the right thing is. I have seen people accost someone who looks able bodied, parking in a handicapped parking spot, only to have the person point to a valid sticker on their dashboard. I think what's happening there is a strong desire to protect those parking spots for those who actually need and are entitled to them. They think they are doing the right thing - they just didn't have all the information. There may be some of this going on with the disabled toilets as well. An education campaign might help prevent some of those ugly confrontations that people have recounted. There will always be some who won't care, or will use the disabled toilets for their own selfish reasons - there's a psychopath in every crowd. But I have enough faith in humanity to believe that those people are in the minority.

In Ontario, the Accessibility for Ontarians with Disabilities Act was passed in 2005. That means that every employer and worker in Ontario has to take training to educate them on, among other things, that disabilities aren't always visible. There are fines for contravention of the Act. Workers and employers can no longer say, "I just didn't know". I think that education campaigns are generally effective, if done well. It's a form of nudging - we're seeing it now with covid. There is hand sanitizer literally everywhere, and signs encouraging its use. Signs for masks, and boxes of free masks are in every building. It's a constant nudge - a reminder to do the right thing. Obviously covid and disability are two very different issues, but the process for educating the masses can be similar.

Laurie

Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:03 pm
Padfoot wrote:

Terry,

 I have been thinking about people's responses in light of the human rights violation aspect of your story. While it is so, so tempting to flip off ignorant people with a snappy comeback, unfortunately, I think sometimes that further entrenches their belief that they are justified in saying what they've said. It's just another brick in the wall. Sure, there will always be people who don't care to understand, but wouldn't it be better for all of us if we could bring about a change in attitude, even for some?   I really like what Panther said about the UK campaign to educate about some disabilities being invisible. Why can't we do that in other parts of the world? Why can't we engage our elected officials to take some leadership on this? What about a letter writing campaign to Carla Qualtrough, the Minister responsible for disability inclusion? She is from your neck of the woods - what do you think about her? I know you felt cut off by the guy who was criticizing you in Walmart - if you could have pointed to a sign that said Not All Disabilities are Visible, that would have given you some more clout than you felt you had in that moment - if only because it would have been more than just you stating that position. And while it might not have changed his views right then, it might have given him something to think about when he had calmed down. And maybe it would have prevented xnine from being denied the washroom he needed. And Bill might have avoided an awful humiliation. Your thoughts? The journey always begins with the first step.

Laurie


Hi Laurie,  I think your suggestion is excellent, and really who better to spearhead it than us? The whole "Let's Talk" campaign to recognize the challenges faced by people who suffer from mental health issues had to start somewhere.  This is very similar and as you say, it's application could apply to people other than ostomates.  I'm not sure what the best approach is, this is uncharted waters for me, but I'm in for sure.  I like Qualthrough and she is actually the MP for my municipality (Delta).  She might just be very receptive.  Don't know if you are aware but she is disabled herself, she is visually impaired and legally blind.  I wonder if someone from her office (or maybe even the lady herself) would be willing to talk to me.  I am willing to make the call.  A letter writing campaign would also be good.  Were you thinking snail mail or electronic?  It would probably be easier to get people involved if all they had to do was click on a link and add their two cents.  There are probably lots of us out there who have had negative experiences they would be willing to relate.  I am a dinosaur when it comes to electronics/computers so someone else would have to figure out how to do that part of it.  What do you think? This could be a really good thing and wouldn't it feel great to be a part of something that makes a positive difference in people's lives?  I say if the Brits can do it so can we!

Terry

Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:52 pm
w30bob wrote:

Hi gang,

Good conversation. I'll just throw in a few tidbits to keep it going. First the locking the bathroom thing.......having to ask for a key is definitely a pain in the ass, and some are embarrassed or feel a bit ashamed to ask. But on the flip side......as someone who's both cleaned restrooms early in my working history and frequently had an urgency to use said bathrooms.....there is no one answer that works in all situations. As my Sis stated above you'd be amazed at how people treat restrooms. Would you rather have to ask for a key.....or have full access to a bathroom that has no toilet paper, soap, towels and pee or crap all over the place? I don't see an easy way to fix this one.

Teaching folks about handicaps not only being physical........the problem isn't unique to Canada, so the solution should work everywhere. But what's being missed here is the fact that those who would pay attention to such education are not the people who are causing the problem. I think that if the idiot who said " you don't look handicapped" could even be convinced to take the training, he wouldn't care to learn what was being taught or even care. I'm just saying the hard part isn't getting the message out.....it's getting those who need to learn....to want to learn.

Lastly, thinking about the idiot who questioned her being handicapped.......not to stick up for the ass......but there ARE a lot of perfectly normal, non-handicapped people who use handicap facilities (because they're usually cleaner and roomier), so although she actually was handicapped......the odds are pretty good that someone using those facilities that wasn't obviously physically handicapped might really not be handicapped at all. Just saying there are more folks guilty of contributing to this problem than those who doubt one's being handicapped. 

Regards,

Bob

Hi Bob,  You make some good points.  The people who really need educating will not benefit from any ad campaign, but there will be plenty of normal folks who will.  As you pointed out earlier there is an almost universal perception of what "handicapped" means and it usually involves a wheelchair.  My own husband expressed surprise when I first mentioned something to him about using the handicapped washroom.  He quickly acknowledged his mistake and understood.  

When it comes to which is preferable, having to ask for a key or dealing with the state of the handicapped washroom that is left unlocked, I'll ask.    The Walmart washroom in question is always unlocked and almost always a complete disgusting mess.

Terry

Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:08 pm
kmedup wrote:

Just another perspective told to me by the restaurant owner on the first level of my building.  He said he could write a book about what happens in the loo.

They have to lock them because more often than not, "street" people will use the room for bathing, changing, shooting up, sleeping, and for intimate reasons. Before he started locking them he would have to get a security guard to come and entice the people out - one time he had to break the door down. Yes, sometimes there were more than one in the rooms! So, the easiest, cleanest and safest option is to just lock them - for use by their customers only. Word on the street gets around quickly. K


Hi Laurie,  Another thing the drug users like to do in the washroom is OD.  Here staff always have a second key and frequently have to use it when someone complains that the washroom has been occupied for a very long time.  It's usually too late by the time they do get it open.  We have a huge opoid epidemic in this city.  It's not so bad out in the burbs where we now live but when we were right in Vancouver it was much more apparent.  Many of the public washrooms installed very low lighting which is supposed to make it more difficult for junkies to see their veins.

Just the world we live in.

Terry


Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:10 pm
delgrl525 wrote:


Hi Laurie,  I think your suggestion is excellent, and really who better to spearhead it than us? The whole "Let's Talk" campaign to recognize the challenges faced by people who suffer from mental health issues had to start somewhere.  This is very similar and as you say, it's application could apply to people other than ostomates.  I'm not sure what the best approach is, this is uncharted waters for me, but I'm in for sure.  I like Qualthrough and she is actually the MP for my municipality (Delta).  She might just be very receptive.  Don't know if you are aware but she is disabled herself, she is visually impaired and legally blind.  I wonder if someone from her office (or maybe even the lady herself) would be willing to talk to me.  I am willing to make the call.  A letter writing campaign would also be good.  Were you thinking snail mail or electronic?  It would probably be easier to get people involved if all they had to do was click on a link and add their two cents.  There are probably lots of us out there who have had negative experiences they would be willing to relate.  I am a dinosaur when it comes to electronics/computers so someone else would have to figure out how to do that part of it.  What do you think? This could be a really good thing and wouldn't it feel great to be a part of something that makes a positive difference in people's lives?  I say if the Brits can do it so can we!

Terry

Terry, that's great. If you feel comfortable approaching Ms Qualtrough, as your MP (how perfect is that?) that would be wonderful. I think it would be great if there were some letters that went to her as well. I'm not sure the timing is very good right now, given covid - should we wait a bit? Although, I don't know when would be a good time; there's always something. Why don't I work on a rough draft of a letter, and post it for comments from this group? I will do it as a separate forum topic. When I add comments from the group, I will post it again, and people can cut and paste into their own email? I will add Ms Qualtrough's email address as well. Ostomates from outside Canada can use the letter to send to their own elected representatives. 


If anyone from the UK is reading this, any information you can give us on the awareness campaign would be helpful. Panther had mentioned about signs that say, "Not all Disabilities are Visible". Does anyone know more about this campaign? 

Any suggestions from any of you on this site would be welcome. Wouldn't it be fantastic if we could actually change attitudes? We won't hold our collective breath, but we can probably accomplish more together than we realize.

Laurie

Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:42 am

Hello Laurie.

I think you will find  that there are several organisations who are trying to push the message. If you Google  'Not every disability is visible' there are several sites where this campaign has been taken up.  In the UK one of the major ones is:    https://www.noteverydisabilityisvisible.org.uk/

I hope this is helpful.

Best wishes

Bill


Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:50 am
Bill wrote:

Hello Laurie.

I think you will find  that there are several organisations who are trying to push the message. If you Google  'Not every disability is visible' there are several sites where this campaign has been taken up.  In the UK one of the major ones is:    https://www.noteverydisabilityisvisible.org.uk/

I hope this is helpful.

Best wishes

Bill


Perfect! Thanks for this, Bill.

Lautie

Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:52 am

You are most welcome!

Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:44 pm
Padfoot wrote:

Terry, that's great. If you feel comfortable approaching Ms Qualtrough, as your MP (how perfect is that?) that would be wonderful. I think it would be great if there were some letters that went to her as well. I'm not sure the timing is very good right now, given covid - should we wait a bit? Although, I don't know when would be a good time; there's always something. Why don't I work on a rough draft of a letter, and post it for comments from this group? I will do it as a separate forum topic. When I add comments from the group, I will post it again, and people can cut and paste into their own email? I will add Ms Qualtrough's email address as well. Ostomates from outside Canada can use the letter to send to their own elected representatives. 


If anyone from the UK is reading this, any information you can give us on the awareness campaign would be helpful. Panther had mentioned about signs that say, "Not all Disabilities are Visible". Does anyone know more about this campaign? 

Any suggestions from any of you on this site would be welcome. Wouldn't it be fantastic if we could actually change attitudes? We won't hold our collective breath, but we can probably accomplish more together than we realize.

Laurie

Hi Laurie,  That sounds really good.  This may not be the best time to start this but as you said, there probably never will be just the right time.  This Covid thing will proabably be with us for a long time.  I will contact Qualtrough's office but it won't be right away.  I am going to be off the grid for a week or so, going to the cottage where my internet access is really spotty and unreliable.  We will be back before the end of the month.  Posting a letter for people to add comments sounds perfect.  

Cheers,

Terry


Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:34 pm

Terry, I am also at our cottage, and yes, internet and phone connection can be sketchy. But there are definitely benefits to getting out of the city! 😁 So I will work on this over the next week or so, and post a rough draft for others to add their comments. I did wonder about the timing, given Covid, but I like the idea of approaching Ms Qualtrough with this. Who knows when there might be a cabinet shuffle? Bill kindly passed along a link to an awareness campaign in the UK; I have had a quick look, and I think it will be very helpful. Enjoy your time at the cottage, and I hope to have something ready when you get back. 

Laurie

Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:20 pm
Padfoot wrote:

Terry, I am also at our cottage, and yes, internet and phone connection can be sketchy. But there are definitely benefits to getting out of the city! 😁 So I will work on this over the next week or so, and post a rough draft for others to add their comments. I did wonder about the timing, given Covid, but I like the idea of approaching Ms Qualtrough with this. Who knows when there might be a cabinet shuffle? Bill kindly passed along a link to an awareness campaign in the UK; I have had a quick look, and I think it will be very helpful. Enjoy your time at the cottage, and I hope to have something ready when you get back. 

Laurie


Hi Laurie,  I'll still be around for the weekend.  Yes, it will be great to get away but I have to admit I'm a little nervous.  I was at the cottage (our cottage is on one of the southern gulf islands) when I had my prolapse about a month ago and I had to be taken off island by ambulance water taxi to the nearest hospital on Vancouver Island.  It's all volunteer first responders on the island and I felt terrible about putting them to that trouble.  My husband had gone back to the city as he doesn't like to spend as much time there as I do and I had no reason to think it would be a problem.  Now he will be with me if something goes awry and can get me off the island if necessary.  I've talked to my surgeon and the ostomy nurse and have a few things I can do if it starts to happen again. It's been behaving itself perfectly since it happened!   Fingers crossed...

Terry

Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:00 pm

I use the disabled/family bathroom if the others aren't available, or if I have a leak to deal with. I have never had anyone say anything to me but have thought about how I would react. I think I'd be tempted to say not all disabilities are visible and whip up my shirt and show them my pouch and walk away. Would be a good lesson for them that they would never ever forget. 

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