Is the Loss of Intimacy Due to My Medical Condition?

I have commented to others here how being impotent has only changed how things are done and other than that, it is not all that important. I also stated that my bag had not affected our relationship, that my wife was fine with it all.

Without going into details, my, [not our] last night's bedroom activities were about as satisfying as if she was not there with me. Nothing I tried was what she wanted, and in the end, she just rolled over, ignored me, and went to sleep. This is not a one-off, as it has been getting "difficult" on earlier occasions, but last night was a complete nothing.

I spoke to her about it this morning, and it seems that she no longer wants to engage in bedroom activities again with me. I don't know if she wants or has another; she denied she did, but either way, not with me.

She changed my flange today as she normally does for me, but it was just as if she had to do it and not because she wanted to do it. I had never asked her to do more than assist me on a couple of occasions, and she just took over doing it all. But after today's effort, I feel that I will be doing it myself again soon.

At this time, there is no mention of any other action, like running, but I truly believe the first stage of departure has arrived, and it will only be a matter of time before the next stage is reached.

We are into my seventh month of the bag; could this be the seven-month itch?

I will not be looking for another if she does go or wants me to go, 63 is too old to start again, especially with a two-and-a-half-year-old son. I am just assuming that it is the bag; if not, I would need to blame myself, but I have no idea what I could have done to cause this change.

Wow ~ sounds like change is in the air.

Bob,
Keep in mind that men are notoriously bad when it comes to understanding women. Maybe she is annoyed at you for some totally unrelated reason. Perhaps you forgot to put the toilet seat down? Perhaps you forgot to compliment her new hairdo? I don't want to trivialize anyone's feelings, but I would not try to make much of one night's bedroom mishap. Did she tell you explicitly that she did not want any more sexual activity with you?

On another note, I am not sure why you would allow her to routinely change your flange; but her willingness to do it again today, even a bit grudgingly, is worth something.

PB

Bob, if it has been a successful relationship so far, it might be worth speaking to someone. Leave it to a counselor to suggest counseling, but there might be some wise person, elder, trusted friend, or even a doctor, that the two of you could talk with.

Minor changes or adjustments could possibly make things better. With a child involved, it seems worth pursuing some other options. Love can move through many situations.

Perhaps there are very different things going on with her that are fixable. Are you the one looking for a departure?

Your opening comment was about impotence making things different in the 'how'. I liked hearing that. For many couples, it is an ending of part of the relationship. It is important to let others know that there are plenty of alternate techniques of giving and receiving pleasure.

I once worked with a couple who had been married for 38 years and never had intercourse. Of course, they never had children but had developed alternate techniques that were satisfactory to them both.

I would guess there are other issues here. I hope there can be some resolution for each of the three of you. I am wishing you well.

Just read Primeboy - he said it so much better.

My Ostomy Journey: Jearlean | Hollister

Bob - perhaps, somewhere in the back of her mind, she thinks there is something "wrong" with her...
Sometimes, we, as women, tend to suppress our feelings, especially in matters of the heart. I have read in some of your previous posts that you are afraid to talk to her or "burden" her with some of your thoughts and feelings post-"bag"; and she is probably afraid to talk to you or burden you with how she is feeling and thinking about all this change... so what started out as a small wedge between you has now grown to become a wall that is driving you further and further apart... both in the bedroom and outside of it.

I agree with Primeboy about her willingness to change your flange... to me, this translates to a gesture of acceptance, or willingness to accept, who you are now physically. Who you are, mentally and emotionally, may be very confusing to her now... as it is to even you, at times. Going through a huge change like this does take its toll on you not just physically, but mentally and emotionally as well. And, at the 7-month mark, these issues are likely reaching a head and with no real outlet or communication between the two of you; things will likely explode soon (as you are surmising) if something doesn't open up, communication-wise.

Even with physical issues and/or limitations; what occurs in the bedroom is more of a marker of how the rest of your relationship is going than a performance issue. I agree with Carol; there are very many ways to give and receive pleasure and if the rest of your relationship is solid; it will be easier to explore some of these different and creative ways of giving and receiving. I know that, since my emergency ileostomy back in Dec. 2010, my spouse and I have had to make some adjustments in this area due to continued illness afterward and physical weakness... and if we don't talk about things regularly it is very easy for one or both of us to start assuming that something is wrong with us; that we aren't attracted to the other; etc. When I was in the hospital for 6 weeks following the surgery, the physical closeness and the question of whether I would still be attractive, sexually, to my spouse was paramount in my mind. Luckily, he has accepted the new me without reservation... with his whole heart and soul. When I start to feel down and out about my own situation, I often think of Christopher Reeve and his wife, Dana, and all the adjustments they had to make after his paralysis. I think of how close they were and what a sense of communication and willingness to try and accept new and creative ways of being close they must have had with all the challenges they had to face. I think, "Well, if they could make things work, certainly I can, too!"

I also agree with Carol about possibly talking to someone, as a couple, about things. It could open up a door of communication between you that, until now, has been closed out of fear. Fear is such a powerful 4-letter word! Out of all the gamut of emotions I have faced since my surgery, fear has got to be one of the nastiest and most consuming monsters that I have battled.

Darla

Bob,
In view of the fact that you have already been given some advice on your predicament, all of it good, I won't venture any. But I will say that I hope you and your spouse work things out. As you say, 63 is a hell of an age to start again, especially with a bag.

Good luck.

Bob and others,

Every single day for the past 6 or 7 weeks has been a starting over day for me - age 68. Many have been a reluctant starting over. I don't really want to - no choices. But it is getting easier and better.

There is some light out there. Change is our future. I can only focus on the choices I have - not the ones I don't.

Hello Bob,

There seems to be a lot of good advise coming your way.    I hope you are able to take it on board and use it.    Most long-standing relationships have to resolve or manage these sorts of difficulties.

My wife and I had some difficult emotional times after her hysterectomy and I'm not so good at expressing emotion. (except via poetry)   Interestingly, we had some more similarly difficult times before my ostomy operation when the pain surrounding sexual activity far outweighed the pleasure involved.    I really don't know how my wife feels about my ostomy as it is early days and it is not (and never has been) my intention to rush things or force my attention upon her.  I figure that in the past these things have worked themselves out eventually and the operations and surrounding rigamarole come to mean less and less as the relationship grows stronger.    I do not identify myself as just an 'ostomy' and in the past, I tried to help my wife understand that whether she had a womb or not was quite irrelevant to our ongoing relationship.  All these things take some adjusting to and adjustment sometimes takes time.

I do think that constructive reciprocal communication is very important in relationships and I would therefore reiterate what others have said about getting help if you cannot achieve this yourselves.

Darla mentions 'fear' as a difficult emotion to manage. This certainly seems to be the case and I have penned several poems to cover this subject - so I will post one or two on the blog for you to contemplate.  

Best wishes  

Bill

A student in one of my classes once shared a peculiar perspective on FEAR as an acronym with three interpretations:

1) F_ _ k Everything And Run

2) False Evidence Appearing Real

3) Fun Excitement Awareness Relaxation

Three-  Lots of wisdom in those 3 interpretations.  Thanks.

When I was in college, my Psychology teacher had a different take on what the word "Fine" meant. She said if you ask someone how they are and all they say is "Fine," chances are it means "F#CKED up, INSECURE, Neurotic, & Emotional." It made me really stop and think about how many times I have answered people in just that way.
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Shelia

Fear is a double-edged sword at times. It drives us at times in our lives to be the best we possibly can due to our insecurities and lack of faith in ourselves. So we tend to achieve due to our fear of fear, I guess. But in other periods, fear becomes our greatest enemy and consumes us entirely and forces us into decline.

I am of the opinion that you need to manage your fear instincts and use them to create a better existence for yourself. Do not let fear get in your way, as they say.

Good luck Bob.

Since I just got an email attesting that these two specialize in knowing how to do relationships... how to make loving work, maybe it's timely to share it here. I've really only just watched one clip, so your evaluation is your own, but the one I saw had good advice.
https://www.youtube.com/user/SonikaTinker?feature=mhum

As a qualified counselor myself, I understand that the best thing to do in most situations is to talk. As I said in my first post, I waited until the next day before speaking about it, and I was in no way fault-finding, just using questions to help her be open about the situation. The results were very poor at this early stage, and while I posted here, I did not pursue the situation with her at this time. Time was going to be the best helper here and allow her to come to understand herself after what I had asked and what we spoke about.

This morning, I engaged her in general conversation but brought different situations into the conversation without making it confrontational. We managed to get a lot out before she decided she did not want to continue discussing the situation further at this time. It seems that the bag is only indirectly the problem. She feels that I am no longer the person I was, and we don't engage in lovemaking, just foreplay without sex. While climax is reached by both parties, she would experience this more than once most of the time we made love. I don't fully understand what she is saying, but I had assumed she was reasonably happy with our bedroom activities before this blow-up.

She has expressed that she would be happier if I were able to achieve an erection. Viagra has failed, and my doctor has suggested penile injections. We had talked about this and whether I would be able to inject myself or not, etc., and it was after this that she changed drastically. I have no idea if this had anything to do with the situation, but the timing was there.

She said she has no intention of leaving or asking me to leave, and she said she will still engage in bedroom activities [at times], but she is not happy or satisfied the way things are now, without any idea of how they could be changed. That is, with the exception of, like they were before.

She is very clear that it is not my fault and that she is very sorry, but it is just the way she is feeling now.

Would injections change the way she feels? Maybe, but she will not discuss that.

Would an implant fix the problem? Again, I don't know. I will just leave everything for a week or two and try to speak to her about it again. I truly believe she has no idea what is wrong or how to fix it, just that she is not happy in any way about that part of our relationship. Hopefully, she will know more about what she is looking for and be able to tell me how she feels about everything then.

Thank you all for your input,

Bob

Davao,
Although sexual intimacy is a very important part of a marriage and any relationship, it isn't all there is to it. I have not had actual intercourse in 9 years; however, I am very sexually satisfied. I do not have a steady boyfriend, nor do I want one. I have a very good and close male friend that I spend time with just cuddling and kissing, talking, and touching each other. We feel there is no pressure to get down to business because we can please each other in other ways. Just laying my head on his lap as we watch TV and he plays with my hair is satisfying to me, as it is to him as well. I may never want to complete the deal, who knows. I am comfortable with him, and he is with me; he is well aware of my ostomy and to him, it's no big deal. For me, just spending good quality time and cuddling is better than sex. I feel more happy and less stressed.
Also, if you wanted to pleasure your wife, there are things out there on the market that can do just that; it only takes 2 C batteries.

Sharry

Bob,
there is so much that I would like to say to you, but there are some subjects that when expostulated are just that... words. And no matter what they are, still just... words.
Your unique situation, while unique to you, is not really unique unto itself, as so many of us have similar situations. You just have to make your own condition bearable. I don't have any real advice, just venturing a few thoughts. I wish you and your wife well and hope that if it has to be, as you describe, in time it all works out.

Good luck, my man!

Jack

Bob, you need an outside party—very likely your wife finds it difficult to discuss the issues with you. She may feel that talking to you will sound more like selfish ranting on her part or accusing you of things that cannot be rightfully blamed on you. She has made every step with you on this journey and now may be suffering from some backlash depression. Remember that if all this has been hard on you, you were not alone. Remember that you have not been alone—you had a site full of people who know exactly what you have suffered and what problems you still deal with every day. Where does your wife go to discuss what has happened to your life? Where does she go to discuss her fears? Find that third party so she can talk out what is bothering her.

Hello Bob,

I can understand what you are going through. Four years ago, I had a colostomy followed soon afterward by three operations to remove a kidney stone. I had trouble with my bags initially, and my partner of 19 years told me that she could not face up to the situation. As a result, she now sleeps in a separate bedroom. We have not had sex or even a cuddle since my colostomy, and she told me that she is not up to it either. The operations have left me partially impotent, and I have not mentioned this to my doctor as I feel what is the point, although I still have normal feelings. I discussed this with my partner, and she is quite happy for us to be good companions. The last thing she wants is for us to split, as you say, at our age, we are both 66 years old, starting all over again would be difficult, especially for me with a bag. As far as our relationship is concerned, we get on fairly well, although at times I get the urge to leave and look for someone else, and I do get very angry with her, especially when friends are surprised that she is not prepared to go beyond the bag. In addition to my problems, my third CT scan last year revealed a secondary tumor in my lung, which resulted in another operation. So far, subsequent scans have not found anything, but I feel my relationship is getting worse as my partner now regards me as a really ill person. I've reached the stage where I feel like telling her to go and find someone else who is in better shape.

Hey Bob, hope things have started to turn around for you.

All the best and good luck.

Bob,
I feel very sorry for you; it seems to me that your situation does not augur well. I understand the problem of being impotent myself and have been for quite some years. Bedroom activity is mainly if my wife starts it, and that has become fewer and fewer occasions. I am 78 now, my wife is 71. I suspect that the differences in age between you and your wife are much greater. That will not help in your case.

Fortunately for me, my wife and I are very close, and today, October 18, is our 48th wedding anniversary. I have had severe problems over those 48 years, and my Bev has always been right there with me. I realize that "that is fine for you but doesn't help me" sort of thing, but therein lies a big difference in how we react in all kinds of situations. So, I hope that you can resolve that worry of how your wife feels right now; let her assist you wherever you can but return the compliment, as it were. Try to find something in which you can assist her. That is what I do. I do all of our cooking and shopping for foods. My wife works part-time still (yes, at 71), and when she comes home, I sit her down with a glass of wine in front of the TV and prepare dinner for her. Things like that. She is, after all, my best friend too. My colostomy has not fazed her one bit.

Keep your chin up, Bob,

Doug.

A few things I should mention to set the records straight. As a qualified counselor, I know that talking is best and I know not to be confrontational. These are good things for everyone to know when talking about things with others. I fully understand that I cannot take the place of an outside counselor; I was just trying to explain that I understand the need to talk and how partners can talk to each other and how they should not be attacking each other if they want to find a solution to any problem. I was married for over 30 years to my first wife, whom I lost to lung cancer after a 3-year battle with pain being a major part of her life. I watched firsthand how cancer can change a person from an active, happy, outgoing person to someone that just suffers and lives from day to day just to get through the pain. While she was on very heavy doses of morphine in the end, it was only partly successful at quashing the pain.

My current wife is very shy about talking about sex and has great difficulty talking to me about it. I don't know if she would ever share details like that with her best friend, let alone a stranger. While a normal sex life is easier to talk about, this would be much harder for her to share. She is not willing to discuss any part of our situation with anyone else and made herself very clear in this regard.

I think, note I said think, she feels “dirty” not having a normal sexual relationship. To just use “Foreplay” as a sexual relationship is the problem, and she is feeling she is wrong in having a relationship just like this without sex. That is, it is not the “correct way” to make love, and it is bothering her. We have used “toys” in the past as part of our activities, but these are now not permitted in any way. I feel the best thing at this time is just to let time pass and see where things go from there.

Thank you, everyone, for your support and kind words. Things will get better, I am sure, and they are not as bad as I first thought.

I can imagine that there are many ladies out there who feel much as your wife feels, even within my family. There isn't any easy answer to that. One of my nieces is still single now, well into her 40s, who was mortified in her early teens by the sexual act itself and has never changed. Apparently, when her mother was explaining what happens, she shouted "OH YUK!!!" and that was the end of it. I still miss the activity, though the subject does surface occasionally. In my case, as it has already been said in this thread, there is much more to our marriage than the sexual aspect; we are great mates too. We have traveled the world together and still travel quite a lot. Since August, we have traveled the Australian "Red Centre," New Zealand, and have just returned from Tasmania. (We live in New South Wales). These are most enjoyable, and we share some fabulous memories. The Red Centre, by the way, is called that because it is thousands of square miles of desert area with red dusty earth. It is the driest country on earth.

Take care

Doug

Thank you, Doug. I have driven the Nullarbor twice, from Sydney to Perth where we lived for 12 months and then back to Canberra where we lived for 6 years.

We were traveling just after sundown, trying to reach the next hotel before it closed, running over hundreds of rabbits, looking very carefully for kangaroos when my then-wife needed to go to the toilet. We could see the lights of an approaching truck; she got out of the car, walked in front of our lights, and urinated in the middle of the road. She got back into the car, and it was another few minutes before we passed the truck coming towards us at over 110 km/hour as we were. That is how long and flat the straight roads are there.

One of my problems is that before this situation, I would have classed myself as a sexaholic with at least three times a week. From that to now is a big step for both of us.

Bob

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Heya Bob, sorry I didn't see this post earlier. I want to ask a question; don't answer if you feel it's too personal! Did this start when you came back to Australia? Your wife's change?



Did she come back with you? If so, does she miss her country, maybe? Just a thought!



Does your wife NEED to change your pouch for you, really? I know many men from my ostomy association who just refuse to change it and make their wives do it for them (the mind boggles). Bet they wiped their own asses before the operation! Always freaks me out when they tell me the husbands won't change themselves. Man, what if the missus broke her arms... oops!





Take care, matey xxx...



P.S. When I say I'm fine, 90% of the time I'm just too bored to talk about my own shit (I think).

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A true statement in that song, Ken... Hope you're fine! Really xxxxxxxxxxxx

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Hi Moosa,

  It was well after we got back to the Philippines as I was unable to do anything about it while still recovering. She is the one who wants to change my flange and keep my skin in good order. I never asked her to do it; she wants to, but I now think it is just the ED problems and how we now must be together, not so much the actual bag.

That is, the problem is due to my inability to gain an erection and not the bag on my side. It is just that the cancer caused both, so it is the cancer that is at fault and not the bag.

Today, yes, I just got it today, I have an injection that I will try and see if that fixes the problem. All I need now is for her to let me try; the thought of me injecting myself there scares her.

Bob

I am a female, 62, and I use the mini-pouches for intimate relations. There are companies that manufacture products that you can use to cover the pouch.

In regard to the insecurity of no longer being a "nude person," I deal with it. Perhaps there are counselors and ostomy nurses that could give you more information. I have been very "open" with my endostomal nurse. She has helped, and I have discussed her words with my husband.

I also let him know that I am somewhat distressed with the issue. Understanding is the solution to fear. At least it is one path.

Dear Bob,

I am so sorry for your issues with your wife. I know that in my marriage, I am the one with the issues. I had a hysterectomy in '99 at the age of 40 just before we married. Up til then we had a great sex life. After the healing period it was different. I was different and what I wanted or needed changed but it was hard to talk about. Then in '07 I was diagnosed with a rare aggressive form of anal cancer and underwent massive chemo and radiation treatments. I was burnt from my waist to mid-thigh level and it was so bad that within the first full week of treatment I literally had chunks of skin falling off. It took nearly a year before I was healed up enough to even consider doing anything. Then 1 year and 1 week from the original diagnosis the cancer had returned and spread to my lymph nodes and I had colostomy surgery as well as removing my anus and rectum. This surgery ended up as a healing nightmare. The radiation had damaged my rectum and vaginal areas and left me with literally no vagina left. My GYN can no longer do pap smears. And where they removed my rectum I still have a small hole that didn't completely heal. I have had two hernia surgeries along with two others to revise my stoma due to scar tissue problems, etc. It has been a long hard few years.

But all in all, we still have a great marriage. I feel I have left my husband unsatisfied since the only sex we can have is between our ears. But the brain is a huge part of any sexual experience. We can touch and hold one another and that seems to have taken on a new role in our expression of love. I know that he stands beside me and assists me with changing my flanges, pouches, irrigation or whatever has to be done. And he still loves me and looks at me the same as before anything happened. But you have to find ways to express your feelings and to let your wife know that sex is so much bigger than intercourse. But communication is key. You have to be able to talk to her and let her know how you feel and what you want or need as well as the same in reverse. Do not let the love change just because you have had surgery and are not the same person you once were. You can always find ways to satisfy one another regardless of your physical limitations.

Good luck in your adventures moving forward.

Bob...Bob...Bob...63yrs old with a 3yr old kid?  Let me guess.  Wife is 20+ yrs younger than you?  Chance of these marriages lasting under the BEST of circumstances are bleak, let alone suddenly having a colostomy bag.  And your WIFE changing your WAFER?  Unless you lost the use of your hands in the war, I don't understand why?

I don't think the colostomy is your problem Bob,  I think the it's the mistake you made, trying to recapture your lost youth, and marrying a woman much too young for you and making a baby at 60 yrs old, is your problem.  Better have the # of a good lawyer on hand.