Help! Washing stoma without removing adhesive?

I was having trouble with my bag leaking and changing it 3 times a day, so I had to resort to going to the ER in order to get help changing my colostomy bag. If I put a new bag on yesterday and today I want to shower, how do I wash the stoma without washing away the adhesive barrier? I don't like getting a shower and not washing the stoma. It makes me feel like I'm not washing my entire body. My health is bad and I'm so scared to have the reversal, yet I hate living like this. I can't seem to get used to it and I spend 6 hours a day changing bags that leak. I managed to put on a new bag today and get a shower. Now, 5 hours later, the adhesive barrier is all in the bag mixed with feces. Around the stoma is burning and by 9am, I'll be changing yet again. Do other people have these problems or am I the oddball! Ughh, I'm so depressed.

Hi

I do not know if this will help you...but give it a try...ask for some samples...I shower all the time with my flange on...and can wear it 4 to 5 days and also wash around the stoma area and I have never had problems...it could be the product you are using...

...I use Hollister New Image flanges...and I use the Coloplast stick strips...to form around the hole opening...if I am replacing the flange...I use a Hollister glue remover and then lots of soap...before putting on a new flange I use a skin prep to remove any possible residue that is left...then take a hair dryer and completely dry the area and put on the new flange...

I am also using Hypo Fix in strips to tape around the flange...you can buy it online...they have a website...

Doing all this I have never had problem washing the stoma flange in the shower if I am going to leave it on...Hollister is using a great glue that stays put with heat and humidity...

Ask Hollister for some free samples...and Coloplast for the strips...

I hope this helps you...

Hello, and welcome to the forum. Leaks are very common when you are just learning, but have faith you will master this as we all have.

The first thing I would suggest is to tell us how you prep the area before you install the flange. A common newbie mistake is to wash with a soap that contains perfumes or oils.....very few common soaps are acceptable. I can tell you that yellow Dial works, others may also, but I have no experience with them. The area under the flange must be clean, dry, and the skin healthy. Another tip, not all ostomy products work with all skin types...you must experiment to see what works reliably for yours.

Avoid high fiber foods, especially when you are new.....every bit of fiber you eat, comes right back.

Until you get your routine down, eat foods high in protein and low in fiber. Call all the ostomy product makers and talk directly to their help line, they will send you samples of different products to try free of charge and you can quickly find out what works. Others will be along to add tips, have faith and ask questions....we are glad to help. Keep us posted of your progress. Good luck and God bless.

Do not wash your stoma................That's like "I want to wash my intestines clean" and that makes no sense............Your stoma is designed to be immersed in poop its whole life and that is its natural habitat, if you do anything to it, you will alter the healthy bacterial balance...Michael

Beyondpar has an opinion .....not sure if it is medical or hygienic.......but check out this site for care and cleaning of stoma and stoma area..........

http://www.shieldhealthcare.com/community/ostomy/2013/02/08/ostomy-care-how-to-clean-the-skin-around-the-stoma/

Staying Hydrated with an Ostomy with LeeAnne Hayden | Hollister

My response is just common sense. Do not wash your stoma. You can wash around your stoma all you want and that's okay, but the stoma should be left alone. If you do anything, running clean water over it during a shower is all I would recommend.

I was told to wipe the stoma clean with warm water only, dry it carefully, apply a barrier wipe, then a protective 'washer' (for want of a better word), the Hollister one-piece bag, goes on next, and secured by two half-moon-shaped flange extensions for extra confidence. I have to change every day, keeping the previous day's bag on during a shower. By then, it's so wet and soggy it wouldn't last any longer - in any case, it gives a feeling of being clean for a short time. A small piece of toilet tissue in the bottom of the bag every time it's emptied and cleaned, plus a tiny amount of Vaseline on the inside near the cutout for the stoma, before it's applied, helps everything slip down and stops pancaking. Light pressure above the stoma lifts it slightly and makes it fit better, sitting down on the loo, with toilet paper under the exposed stoma to catch any unwanted activity - soft toilet paper soaks up more quickly than anything else, and if you have gone several hours without eating or drinking as in overnight, so much the better. Job completed in less than 5 minutes and all ready to get on with your day. Just a few tips learned from 8 years' experience!

Are you changing your appliance every day? I get 1-2 weeks wear time from my wafers. Interested to hear why...Michael

Ok Michael............lets have it........Superman....how do you get 2 weeks out of a wafer............?

By the way...has the chat room been shut down? It does not work at my end and was fine yesterday.

At WAB, although I feel like Superman ever since getting my ostomy in 2007, I can assure you I was a very sick man for most of my life, and if I were you, I would be a little more selective in my choice of words as they seemed a bit condescending and sarcastic towards me. The answer to your question is a convex moldable wafer, and less is more. Yes, I sometimes get three weeks of wear time, and I change my drainable pouch every 3-5 days. So that means 1 wafer and maybe 3 pouches every two weeks. The manufacturers would love you to change every day, that's more money to them, but let your body tell you when it's time to change. Your skin will tell you... Michael

Your words.......

My response is just common sense, do not wash your stoma, you can wash around your stoma all you want and that's okay, but the stoma should be left alone, if you do anything running clean water over it during a shower is all I would recommend.

Sorry young man, I still do not agree with you........what works for some does not work for others.....and you can wash your stoma.....in mild soap and water and rinse it.......it is only hygienic to do so...water is better.......but mild soap can be used.....I am curious how many wash their stoma............

Here is back at you....wow you are touchy............did you read any of the links I posted...........anyhow...........

I didn't look at any links and I'm not going to. Not sure where Superman comes into any of this. Didn't see where Beyondpar was touchy. Since you asked if anyone else cleans their stoma, I am replying. I was told by several nurses and a doctor not to actually wash the stoma. Just run clear, cool water over it when you are in the shower. The reason being that the actual stoma is very sensitive, and running any kind of cloth or touching it on purpose could make it bleed. Since (according to the professionals) this thing has no nerve endings to feel, it's not a good idea to try because you won't feel if you are hurting it. Same with water, if you use too hot water, you could be burning it and not know because you can't feel. In between showers, I put cool water in the bag and swish it around until all is clean.

I had a hard time with keeping it sticking also for the first few months. After reading many things on here, I started using the adhesive remover before my shower, using the type of soap suggested (Dial, my preference) around the area, then making sure it's totally dry before applying a new one. I am usually lucky that I can let it air dry before applying the new wafer. Since I don't own a blowdryer, I just hold it tight against my belly for about a minute or two to help it adhere better. I have gotten a week to two weeks wear since starting this procedure for showering and changing.

My my, you certainly have received some 'advice' haven't you?

If you do have a colostomy and not an ileostomy, the answer to your problems is irrigation.

Contact your stoma nurse if you have one or Google.....all you need to know is there.

As for washing your stoma and the area around it, go right ahead, you cannot hurt it....it is dead, it has no feeling. You can even stick your finger in there. Yes gross I know, but in time you will get the hang of it.

Fully understand your depressed state, most have been through that especially when you are 'new' but if you can irrigate a great weight will be lifted off your shoulders. Good luck.

VJ.

I've had my ostomy for 38 years .... speaking from a broad spectrum of experience, I agree with beyondpar 100%. As most of us also agree with beyondpar, though they will not likely post, NEVER wash your stoma. Nothing more than a gentle rinse or bagless shower should be done there. A gentle rinse, if you wish, is fine and a delicate soft blot dry. Otherwise, don't mess with it. It is intestine, not skin, and thus should not be treated the same way. It is also true about the required balance of bacteria. Allow the stoma to maintain its intended function as best possible.

Beyondpar is another very pleasant and supportive Ostomate who has more than an opinion, but also has more experience and knowledge than many on this site and a very respected advocate for us all. Beyondpar also has a far more friendly and professional personality and ability for tolerance for snide others on this site like our infamous Mr. WAB. Newcomers, try to ignore some of the rude side of WAB's posts, or unleash on him. If at any time he gets too nasty, mention it to Administration. Don't put up with it. People have had trouble with certain members in the past and there is a line we will no longer allow them to cross. Plain and simple.

WAB, behave yourself. You've had hoards of people upset with you in the past and that didn't go very well for you, did it? Don't go down that road again and especially do not step rudely on the toes of a far more respected member of this site who has generously earned that status.

For newcomers, I might sound a bit stern at the moment. For others who have been here, you remember exactly many reasons why.

As for our original post inquiry, make up your own mind, dear, and you will find a lot of positive loving support from most of us, also from Ostomy Nurses. But often time those who have been dealing with ostomies for many years have been known to share a great deal of helpful advice to our Ostomy Medical Teams from other aspects they would normally be unaware, that they can in turn pass along to other patients of theirs.

Please do take care and let us know how things are going for you.

DOE

Wounded Doe - Love your reply. It's perfect. I have never gotten to know you, but have read a lot of your comments and replies on the site. You're an admirable person. I'm sure you know, there are some people in this world that find it entertaining and satisfying to be controversial (putting it nicely, not really the words in my mind). It's always nice to learn my instinct was correct. :)

Lostchild - Please make sure you check with your doctor/nurse before doing anything to your stoma. Even if you have a colostomy it's sometimes not advisable to irrigate. I have not checked google to see if there are instructions on how to irrigate; but please don't try it until you have talked to a stoma nurse or doctor and gotten proper instruction. I do know that the people that can do it think it's one of the best things invented since the wheel.

I have to debate the comment that the stoma is dead. My common sense tells me that something that is red, moist, bleeds and changes size on a regular basis is not dead. As I said before, I was told it has no nerve endings and that you have to be very careful with water temperature and rubbing things across it.

Yes, lostchild, some of this is advice and opinion; some of it is from many years of experience and professional instruction. Changing times and what you eat will help, but you'll have to experiment until you find what works. Try what you are comfortable with and don't be shy to call and talk to a stoma nurse.

Very good Zywie dear,...thank you and hello :).....you are also right about the stoma not being "dead." I think that is a term sometimes misused under different varying contexts, for we all know it is as 'alive' as the rest of our intestine and other organs and bones...etc....however, there is no feeling in it which often easily urges some to use the terminology of it being "dead" or even have the false notion that it is some dead piece of thing hanging out of us.....the only "dead" thing about us is the pouch we wear ;)

Be strong and healthy everyone....and do all you can to always be warriors and live your life to the fullest........no matter what the circumstances................

I am not in full membership in here so I am unfortunately unable to respond to you as I once could....also I apologize that I am not in here as often as I would like to be as life outside the internet has dragged me away for a bit.......BUT.......that does not for a moment mean that I have forgotten about ANY of you, long-time friends or new, you are on my mind often and I care! I hope one day to have more time to spend re-connecting in here again.

Be good to yourselves!

DOE

I feel bad for the poor person who started this forum..... As you can see, all you other good people, there are some who are very sensitive people about forum responses, and they attack as you do not agree with them.

There are some trolls on here. For those of you who do not know what a troll is, here goes:

Trolls use antisocial behavior. Some of the techniques trolls use to accomplish their objectives are:

Name calling and insults. Some dear lady knows what I mean. No pun intended by misspelling "dear".

Attacks that try to negate an opinion by alleging negatives about that person. Again, the dear lady. She should have stuck to the forum. She got side-tracked.

Bullying and harassment. She seemed to not follow the post and decided an attack was better. I want to let all of you know, you have a right to an opinion, and everyone does not have the same experiences and views, and that is perfectly okay.

Completely off-topic post.

Made a mistake by calling BeyondPar a Superman, but he did go off the topic and he tried to steer it elsewhere by telling us he wears his wafer for 2 weeks. It had nothing to do with the post (washing your stoma). That is why I asked him, "Okay, let's hear about it." Maybe Superman was the wrong choice of words, but it seemed to fit for me as I do not know anyone who wears a wafer for 2 weeks (Superman). Maybe that is another forum topic.

Posting inaccurate facts. You can wash your stoma people with mild soap and water. It is a fact posted on many ostomy sites, and many feel better by doing so.

So now you know what a troll is. You can agree or disagree. It is your right.

OK, here’s how I see it. This forum is loaded with Supermen and Superwomen who spent some time in hell dealing with the crap we’re all here writing about. Most of these super folks offer help in the form of opinions or actual experiences for the purpose of helping others. Maybe a few might use this forum to advertise how smart they are and, if their advice is helpful, so what? I’m thankful for all the help I’ve gotten here and hope I helped some others. My opinion is we are really good for each other so long as our intention is to help. There are other sites for determining whose the smartest smart ass this week. Let’s focus on the important stuff and maybe we can even have some fun. I’m talking to myself also.
Sincerely,
Mike

In re-reading your questions and comments (if you are still checking this topic), I don't see any way you can wash the area without removing the adhesive barrier. But, as stated elsewhere, you do need to make sure all the old adhesive is off before applying anything new, and that the area is completely dry before applying the new wafer. The only barrier I use is a wipe now (it looks like a wetnap). I did try the paste (yuck, messy), a thing that looks like a foam ring (leaked like crazy), and finally convex wafers. The convex wafers seem to be the best for me as far as keeping leaks at bay. I really can get a week to two weeks wear out of them depending on my output. There are still days I have to change 2 times or wait in the bathroom for an hour or more before things calm down to put a fresh appliance on. Someone else suggested that you try to get different samples to try. A stoma nurse can help you with that.

As for being scared, I don't blame you. I would not go through a reversal even if I could get one. But there are success stories as well as horror stories on here about reversals. It's ultimately your decision. nbsp

You are not even close to being the oddball. Depression goes with the territory. It does get more tolerable, and there are even days where you almost forget you have the damn thing. It's been a little over a year for me. nbsp

There is good advice here, cautionary suggestions for you to consider and, hopefully, find out more about before you proceed. In spite of the fact that Superman and now trolls (OH MY) have invaded the forum. nbsp

And yes, Mike, everyone here is a superhero in their own way; even if we don't always feel like it.

Thank you, Mike; you hit the nail on the head... We are here to help people... You have the right idea... We all should learn from this post... And what advice you have given...

+1

If this conversation was in a bar, I'd be the slightly drunk smoker in the corner who knows nothing and wants to share it with everybody.

I'd soon get on your nerves, but we would have a good laugh. Probably one reason that I don't have many friends.

I don't enter into many conversations as I am Uro, not Colo, so my advice falls on deaf ears.

Anyway, all take care. May your god go with you, whoever he, she, or it may be...

Hi Michael, I am very curious to learn about your routine and changing the flange every one to two weeks. I felt successful when I was able to progress to 4 days from a 3-day change routine. I would be very happy to progress to 5 days with the flange if possible. I change the pouch every day because the filter usually gets clogged and stops working. My routine still takes me 15 minutes on a good day. I am just not that quick with the process. I agree with you, less is best when it comes to these products and care. Regarding washing the stoma, the wound care nurse and home nurses that helped me in the beginning said to use only water to clean the area and stoma. That is all that I use. I will use Dial soap also around the area because that brand apparently does not have perfume or oil so it does not compromise the glue on the flange. A few of my ostomate friends will shower with the pouch off and carefully take the handheld shower to rinse the stoma. I have not tried it. Anyway, thanks for the tips - I appreciate it. LH

Vulcan BMk2 -

You can wash the stoma in the shower, just not directly. Let the water run down on it from above. The reason I know this is because I tried to wash it directly with the shower head and it bled and hurt like hell.

Hi Lost, I apologize as I posted on your discussion asking another post some direction with the changing of the flange. There really is a learning curve with stoma care. It took me several months before I was comfortable, and I still have moments of frustration. Some days I am just plain aggravated with everything. Regarding showering and washing the stoma, I answered the washing in my previous post but what I do is cover up my pouch with a sandwich baggie and tape the sides when I shower. I use Hytape - the pink stuff. I do not like the pouch being wet against my skin. Others have suggested blow drying the bag but my pouch never dries...especially in the summer time. I also use some baby powder under my pouch on my skin. It makes me feel fresh after a shower. I don't trust the adhesive either when it gets wet. When I did not cover up the area in the beginning, the flange seemed gooey and loose. It may have been me, but I did not want to risk a leak. On days when I take a bath, I do not totally submerge for a long period of time. I love my baths but do not want a leak. I've read on this site that people relax in hot tubs, the pool and ocean and everything is fine. I have not gathered the courage to give it a try but maybe some day I will. Anyway, keep posting and ask lots of questions. Everyone is so different with the routine and technique. The Phoenix Magazine is another great resource as well as local supports groups. You can check support groups in your area on the United Ostomy Association website. www.uoaa.org. I am not certain if this email address will be posted but if it is not, please google it. Take care and keep posting - things will improve. LH

Hi Lost. You got tons of great advice from lots of ostomates here who all want to make some contribution to the quality of your ostomy life. You even got to see some of our rare family fireworks which will never register on any Richter Scale. Anyway, when I started out 5 years ago wearing a bag, I was happy to find lots of clips on Yahoo dealing with bag changes. Most of these clips were made by young people who generated a very positive and supportive attitude about wearing the bag. I learned a lot of good techniques from them, including how to sleep in various positions without harming the bag. I also found the section in the main menu here very helpful, called "Tips For Ostomates." Finally, I took my time and read a lot of relevant posts which were made over the years and stored in the program's memory banks. My suggestion to you, which others have made, is to experiment with what works for you. Try different methods. Get different products (Hollister is great). Attend an ostomy conference if you can and load up with samples from manufacturers. Learn what works for you, and learn your body's time clock for discharging. (That will tell you when you can safely change or streak across the park without complications.) Common sense should govern your choices but all of us work differently. What is good for me may damage you. So, experiment cautiously, one step at a time. Five years ago, I felt constricted due to my ostomy. Now, my ostomy is a minor part of my planning or anxiety. Good luck and glad to have you with us.

PB

I have a permanent ileostomy, but the basics are all the same. First of all, as others have said, you can't use soap on the area where your flange goes. The residue will keep it from adhering. But really, you need to get used to the idea of not washing your stoma. I can honestly manage to not change the flange more than once a week. I've got it down to a science. You need the hole in your flange to fit closely to your stoma without touching it. Any extra space around your stoma is a place where stool can get on your skin and cause breakdown or water can get in when you shower. An ileostomy can be much more active, so I shower with an opaque back on and quickly use a hair dryer to dry it after. When I do change the flange, I use peri-stoma wipes around the area and then make sure it is 100% dry before applying the flange. I put a ring of paste around the opening in the flange and then once I put it and the bag on, I sit for a minute and put my hand over the area. The adhesive on the flange adheres from the heat of your body, so take a minute to let that happen and help it out by adding the heat of your hand. Lastly, Coloplast makes "elastic barrier strips" that are amazing. They are strips that go around the perimeter of your flange and stick like nothing else. They give me the confidence to wear anything, do anything, go anywhere. With them, my flange doesn't come off until I take it off and they are the only thing I carry around with me now because they could fix any emergency. Lastly, it's a cycle you've gotten into... Every time you get stuff under the flange, it can irritate your skin and every time you have to change your flange prematurely (while the paste or adhesive is still strongly bonded), it irritates your skin and can cause breakdown. Once you have breakdown, your flange won't stick as well. It can be a never-ending cycle. You have to break the cycle. There is a spray that you can apply to the irritated skin, but I found the powders only caused the flange to not adhere well. You have to change what you're doing and get out of this cycle. You don't need to wash your stoma. I do understand how you feel. Your body has changed, and it's hard to make the mental adjustment. Please ask questions, anything. I promise I will always give you a candid answer.

Getting the hang of it takes patience! Lots of it! Don't frustrate yourself because it won't help! Take a deep breath and know you can do this! You will get over this trial, God willing. The flange is cut to the correct size and use the adhesive skin prep at least 2 to three preps with each change. Prep around the stoma area and dry the area well. The flange should stick nicely to the skin. I use 4x4 gauze to cover the stoma prior to placing the flange. I also eat 5 large marshmallows 15 to 20 minutes prior to changing the appliance. This helps the intestines slow down so you won't have much activity prior to the new placing of the appliance.

It's been 35 years since my final surgery. I'm grateful to be alive! It's been a long roller coaster ride. As I now look back, I can sincerely say I'm wiser and an all-around better person today. I wouldn't change a thing.