The State of the Nation

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lottagelady
"What good fortune for governments that the people do not think." Adolf Hitler ....

I don't normally do 'political' stuff, but I am getting increasingly concerned about the cuts that are being directed towards the sick and disabled, and the probable 'privatisation' of the NHS ...

Some of us here in the UK have worked and paid in to the system and for no fault of our own have ended up needing help from the State as we can no longer work. I for one went through 4 Occupational Health Assessments, all of which said that there is no possiblity that I will be likely to return to work in the forseeable future, before being retired on ill health grounds last September having not worked for my employer for almost 3 years .....

It now seems however that with the new harsher Work Capability Assessment from the DWP for ESA, that I will now be found 'fit to work' .... in fact, 93% of claimants are likely to be thrown on to Jobseekers Allowance with a 300 bonus paid to Atos Healthcare for each one that is .... Even if you do get onto the "work related activity group" (WRAG) then that is going to be limited to 12 months anyway. I know of many examples where this has occurred - a 23 yr old blind person who cannot walk, someone with life threatening heart disease that died 2 weeks after being found 'fit'etc ..... For anyone that is interested, or in this same position, please message or wink at me and I will send lots of info for you to read .... the new assessment reads like an April Fool's joke, but unfortunately it isn't ....

DLA is also being targeted and will be replaced with a Personal Independence Payment which will of course have a much harsher criteria for claiming - as if it isn't harsh enough?

As for the NHS - despite it's bad bits - we are very fortunate to have it, just read some of the stories from our US ostymates ....
Dr David Wrigley "Something very dangerous is happening to our NHS. It is called the Health and Social Care Bill. It will implement radical changes to the NHS changes that will turn the NHS into a market driven, profit based service.
Patients will become commodities and profits will come before patient care. Illnesses will have price tags attached to them and if you are unfortunate to have an expensive' illness then you may be at a disadvantage." None of this legislation was in any party's manifesto and David Cameron in particular made a pledge during last year's election campaign that "after years of Labour meddling he would not introduce any more top-down reorganisations of the NHS...."
There is also quite a bit of money changing hands eg Care UK are making big donations to the Tory Party, wonder why???

I for one am terrified about the future - I do not want to scare people, but I do want you to be aware, especially if directly affected ....
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Past Member
We are definitely living in 'interesting times', Rache. I can understand your fear about the future. I'm in the states and we don't have a smidgen of the track record for taking care of our people as the Europeans do. We've been throwing our citizens to the wolves for years and there is no end in sight now. It is worse than scary here too. I'm working at a charitible organization right now that assists people accessing health care needs. My phone never stops ringing. The stories I hear all day long are just unbelievable. When there are no jobs and no supports for people, this is NOT the time to be cutting benefits. On this side of the pond it is the outrageous hypocrisy practiced by ignorant, moralistic, greedy, racist, small minded people who don't want to pay taxes (we pay the least taxes anywhere) and then glory in these mantras that they repeat constantly that we are the greatest country in the world. They can say it all they want but it won't make it true. We actually rank lower than most industrialized countries (and some third world countries) on many important indicators. How people ever think we will get out of this mess by repeating lies as if they are magic spells, is beyond me.

I am so ashamed at the degradation and damage this country has wrought on itself and so many others in the world (the middle east, in particular). Now when the needs are so great in our country for many of our citizens we can't take care of it because we are too busy wreaking death and destruction other places. But the chickens are coming home to roost, I'm afraid.

Sorry, I got off on a bit of a tangent there.
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Primeboy
Herculisa, you definitely belong to the Jane Fonda school of patriotism. You remind me of how Obama used to parade around the world bowing before Arab despots and disparaging his native land. What an awful and distorted indictment of your own country and your own fellow citizens you present! If I felt as you do, I would have left this country a very long time ago. What makes you stay here? Do you like living in shame and degradation? Let me tell you something, lady. Get your facts straight. Our track record of taking care of our people, for example, is not the same as the Europeans. I agree we didnât throw Jews in the ovens as did the Germans, or starve the Irish as did the British. Come Memorial Day why donât you pause and reflect on how many Americans gave their lives to bring freedom to other countries. Your closing comments about our âchickens coming home to roostâ tells us who your friends are. I would like to leave you with a short poem by Sir Walter Scott. I know it will go over your head, but other readers mine find it therapeutic after reading your garbage.?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /o:p/o:p
Past Member
This a little awkward for me as I truly hope I don't offend either one of you.............
Herculisa,
But, and I just realized that you are an American. Honestly I thought you were an Aussie
and nothing wrong with that, just my mistake. You have good points, but I have to agree, at least partially with Prime, You were a tad harsh, I think that you could have left out some of the things you said. Not the overall message , but the descriptive language. I'm sorry Herc............

Primeboy,
The poem was lovely and right on! I have never read it.
But I think that you were pretty hard on Herc. After all she is a compatriate and the last few years have been very frustrating.
I don't want to see you two clash!

My Grandmother used to make me and my cousins hug and make up after a fight.
I got to be one of the most hugging cousins you have ever seen!!

C'mon, hug each other,ok?
Sun
Yes, hug each other and smile, please
 
Words of Encouragement from Ostomy Advocates I Hollister
Primeboy
"Blessed are the peacemakers for they will be called the children of God." I assume Herculisa believes strongly in everything she said and I respect her in so far as she is committed to her beliefs. I also respect her because she cares for those in need. There is a real culture war going on in our country, however, and our little spat is just a small part of it. It won't help to pretend this battle doesn't exist, but it will help a lot to temper our rhetoric with mutual respect. Our website here is supposed to be a place of support and sharing, so perhaps it might be a good idea to "check our politics" at the door. Let's focus on what brings us together, not on what divides us.
Past Member
Hugs to all! Primeboy and Jacksprat, Sun and all the rest. I'm not offended by anything Primeboy or Jack has said and I respect you both for saying it. And if 'Jane Fonda's friend' is the worst I ever get called, believe me, I'm lucky.It's true I'm no nationalist by any means. That sort of thing just fuels the killing fields as far as I'm concerned. Injustice is injustice wherever it's found, and it's found everywhere. My allegiance lies with humanity; that's whose side I'm on. There isn't a country/government on earth that doesn't have blood on it's hands. But being American, I do expect better of us.

Frankly I expected that America would value its citizens enough to at least provide adequate health care, education and support to the very many poor, elderly and disabled in this country who need it.
Past Member
Oh, Primeboy, I just saw your second post....come'on and give us a hug. Everyone needs a little Marxist at the bridge table on occasion.
Past Member
I do hope you know that was a joke
three
I appreciate the honesty tempered with tolerance being practiced in this thread, and I am reminded of the following quote, and also of a story concerning how we become good at what we practice:

"Truth between candid minds can never do harm." (Thomas Jefferson)
Primeboy
{ } { } + X

Two big hugs and one really big hug. My wife and son are hard core liberals. I get lonely watching Bill O'Reilly by myself. I love duplicate bridge and I always double anyone that even looks like a Marxist. Be well and don't stop caring.
tnbekka
Interesting thread.....thanks for the video post, Three. This week I'm going to (practice) joy and peace and knowing myself.
Pinky
Let's not miss the point in Rach's posting, which is an expression of the fear and feeling of abandonment some of us have who were fully productive citizens, worked, paid taxes, and then at some point were told "tough shit" - you're on the dung pile now - literally.

I pay over $400 a month for my insurance coverage, yet I am sweating it toward the end of my 3-month order period, fearful that I may run out of supplies. And I irrigate (and so one would think use fewer supplies). Now this $400 I pay mostly goes to private insurance companies that pay out very little as most of any major expense (ie: hospitalization) is already covered by Part A Medicare.

And I just read that insurance companies in California have only paid out roughly 2% of all of the premiums they have taken in in medical malpractice insurance. And we're told a primary reason our health care is so expensive is because we're a "litigous" society!

In other countries where private insurance companies are allowed, they are NOT allowed to make a profit (eg: Switzerland). A la Kaiser - which by the way makes billions every year, even so.

So - I can understand Rach's fear about privatization of health care based on my own experience AND 25 years of working in the American health care "system". It's a poor model and I hope the NHS doesn't go down our rutted road.
three
Systems cannot exist without the cooperation of a critical mass of people within that system; and a dysfunctional system resists change without the intervention of a highly motivated leader who can catalyze the evolution of a critical mass of people within that system bottom-up (no pun intended) evolution always works, even though the changes often materialize extremely slowly.

I have had many intense experiences dealing with dysfunctional systems, and I understand those feelings of fear and abandonment, and what it is like to look to a system for help and to have that system say "NO". Here are two examples:
1) as a single parent in 1988 with a 4 year old daughter and a 1 year old son in diapers, and an eviction notice on my door, and not even enough money for food, and a "system" that said "Sorry, there's nothing we can do to help."
2) as a father of a 16 year old with misdiagnosed FAP who undergoes several botched surgeries, and who is so close to death on the operating table during one of those surgeries that she is not given enough anesthesia to put her to sleep she remains conscious (but paralyzed and unable to open her eyes or vocalize to tell the surgeons to stop) through a 2 hour abdominal surgery to remove a failed J-pouch and 80 cm of necrotic intestine, and the "system" afterwards says "Sorry, there's nothing we can do about the mistakes of the medical professionals."

However, the beautiful thing is this: beyond the feelings of fear and abandonment this amazing mystery of life unfolds in this infinite universe, and this mystery gives some the power to be the highly motivated leaders who set out to catalyze the evolution of a critical mass of people within the dysfunctional systems; and this mystery gives others the power to look for such leaders and if they find them, to help support their efforts; and this mystery gives others the power to evolve and to be the change they want to see in the world.
KennyT
In one way or another each and every one of us are part of this dysfunctional (or not) society of which you speak in our own corner of the world. We live within the parameters set by the controlling mechanism which guides us each and every day. A majority conform to, and abide by what they are programmed to live their lives by. Some cry out for something, or someone, to steer them from that which places fear within them. Others live their existence happy in their world.

Nothing will cease to be. Some will abide. Some will chase the answer. Some will chase the reason behind the answer and some will find the answer. We always find our place.
mooza
And jacksprat lisa wouldnt talk that way if she was australian and if she was what do you think she might have said??????Lisa i hear you understandable hope you can learn chine we are down here lol and hey rache its me hahahah what r you all in the uk doing about your particular nhs situation i would be concerned as well but we do pay for medicine say $75 Lyrica so on i cant afford to be pain free so i get our pbs yep people need to pass away trying to fite 4 these medicines i hope this medicine gets on the pbs TRAMAL medicine $5.30 very addictive yes guilty but i get samples of the LYRICA not enough though you know Bring on the UNIONS make a scene cut the Queens pay anything i think Uk people get looked after sooo well....mare -chaos haha=mooza if u get bad give the aussies a call ok ....cheers Last of all primo good ole primo lost for words cause i dont know any big ones hahahahahahah c u pboy in chat will bring theasaurus spell chec am sure oh amazing race byeeee lololol
KennyT
Hey Mooz what did you just say??? I have no idea but I will get Shelia to decypher it for me if she can.

Ken
Past Member
Pinky, you are absolutely right about the need to build in safety measures that prevent the private sector from making money off public service. Not sure it will happen in America though since the corporate sector IS the government here.

And Mooza: you crack me up, girl!

Rachel, thanks for presenting us with this topic obviously so close to all our hearts. Keep us informed on how things progress (or regress, as the case may be) in the UK.
Past Member
WOW!

I done good huh?
I think that every one kinda cooled down some what. Even though the
basic differences are still there, I am glad that every one can still chat civily.

Primeboy,

I don't know how you did that thing with the hugs, but it was great!

Like some one said "Hugs, to all"

Pete,

Am supprized you did not jump in here. Cat got your tongue??
lottagelady
Yes Jack - well done!

I wasn't trying to get people all riled up, just wanted to create some awareness for those in the UK that may somehow have missed what is happening out there!

Big hugs to all ....

Rach xx
Primeboy
Good morning. After reading posts by Three and Kenny T, I thought of sharing a very old meditation written by an Englishmen hundreds of years ago (John Donne) but still vitally relevant today. You might remember it from your dear old schooldays. Here it is:

No man is an island entire of itself; every man
is a piece of the continent, a part of the main;
if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe
is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as
well as any manner of thy friends or of thine
own were; any man's death diminishes me,
because I am involved in mankind.
And therefore never send to know for whom
the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.

I am off to play duplicate bridge; and, Herc, I'll keep my eye out for any Marxists at the table.
ron in mich
wow great thread, i,ve been in both positions of having ins. and no ins. and owing a lot of money to a hosp. and pharmacy its scary, and though i have ins. now i worry because the state i live in is broke and wonder if the ins. will be there when i retire. ron in mich.
yaya
Prime...7 NT to you! Read you loud and clear and I say you are right on the mark.
MrPositive
Go Girl Go !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! stick it to them Darling Always yours Neil.
MrPositive
nbsp; nbsp; quotThose who have a vested interest in the law should not be allowed to stand for the parliment that makes the law quot; guess who ? A H
C Cogan
Hello Herculisa and Mr. Positive: I agree with your positions . To me it seems that our government is returing to social and economic practices of the 17th and 18th century in which the powerful and wealthy had all the breaks and the poor and middle classes were exploited and kept poor. The theory was that if the average citizens worked harder, they too could be wealthy. A tendency toward Utilitarian philosophy was in practice three hundred years ago which theorized that the sick, poor and elderly should be allowed to die as they are no use to society anyway. I am lucky to be living in the 21st century even though it is not perfect. C Cogan
lottagelady
Ooooh if only I could/get the energy!   nbsp;

Thank you!

Rach xxx
Past Member
Speaking of government, did you see the news this morning about that baby boy in Canada, where the doctors are removing the breathing tube from this baby boy so he WILL die. The parents are broken hearted and I am furious. Sounds like old Rome, where they took the sick or deformed babies up in the hills for the wolves to eat.
lottagelady
Have just googled it - how dreadful they won't just give him a tracheotomy so he can go home to die - he might get an infection??? and it was upheld by the Judge ~ WTF is going wrong with the world nowadays ....?
Traveling Lady
As I was telling Rach in a message, Americans seem to be either vehemently for or vehemently against a public health care system. I am on the side of pro but I don't think we went far enough with the "Obama-care" enacted. However, I am always very interested in hearing the other side. I am one of those fortunate people who have employer-subsidized health insurance, though my family premium is still $600/month. My recent complex colostomy surgery cost nearly $100,000 and my insurance covered it all. What do our American ostomates do if they don't have insurance? They probably can't afford a computer or internet so do we even hear their side?
Still, I want to hear the cons -- other than the usual too much government and too much deficit so please help me out here. I really do want to be informed.
Love to all my ostomates, no matter what your opinon . XXXXX
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