Thank you for posting your story about your son and the pain he has gone through. I also have a son. I am fortunate that he is married with four children and has a decent wife who never aborted them. I also raised him right. I am having a very hard time reading through this topic, watching people talk about bullying while they bully others and use condescending words like prejudice and bullying to describe the people who hold the view that is opposed to their own. I know who I think the bullies are, and to me, they are the ones who are incapable of tolerating an opposing view, whether it is based on religion, moral values, the gold standard, personal experience, or whatever. It's called intolerance, and these days it passes for political correctness. The other thing in this discussion I find rather ironic (and I'm using a polite word for that) is this talk of freedom of choice. I'm sorry, but what choice does the father have? And most of all, what choice does the baby have? Do we just ignore these questions because they are too difficult to answer? Are you going to tell us that a baby has no brain to think or feel when we know fully well, via scientific testing, that they do know and they do feel and they can think? And even if they can't or couldn't, who are you to pull the executioner's blade? The egos in this discussion are out of control. It appears to me the brainwashing is complete. Now I wonder if I will get a polite answer for contributing to this discussion.
Medic,
Custom-made babies are on the horizon as you probably know because of the molecular scissor, Crispr-Cas9. If reports are accurate, it has already been done in China.
Xerxes
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No man, especially politicians, should be able to tell any woman what to do with her body.
What do you mean it's not the place for this? You brought it up. I ask you, what is your logic? And obviously, I meant the father of the child, not a rapist. So, you have no logic then, fine. It should be noted that your dismissive attitude towards me (probably because I'm a woman) has been noted.
If it is done in the first trimester, if absolutely necessary, I have no concern. If it is, as you say, an act of rape, incest, or the woman's health or life is threatened, I do not understand why it is done after that time frame. That governor from North Carolina seems to condone even killing the baby if the abortion fails and the baby is delivered alive! Wow! That sounds like murder. That is why that butcher, Goslin, is in jail now, from Philadelphia. Who speaks for the children? Not many, it seems.
Well, thank you to all the pro-lifers....you have restored my faith in humanity. I would caution anyone who asks a liberal for their "logic", liberal logic does not exist :)
As to the pro-choice moniker....I personally think "baby killer" is a more accurate term. Abortion is a heinous act, committed against the most helpless and innocent victim. Shame on you if you support it. Wouldn't it be nice if as much time and money were spent on trying to help adopt as is spent on ensuring the continued wholesale slaughter of children.
We will not resolve this issue here, but we can resolve it with one more Supreme Court justice....a second term for #45 and it's just a matter of time.
I was taught that life doesn't begin in the womb, but is passed on. Therefore, I believe that life, once passed on, should be allowed to mature and take a place in this world. Often, this is inconvenient and abortion is chosen. But using rape and incest as an excuse doesn't quite fly, statistically. Fewer than 1% of all pregnancies are the result of rape, and less than 0.5% the result of incest. Yet, we terminate hundreds of thousands of lives each year in the US. I'm not trying to tell anyone how to live their lives, but as the father of five adult children, I will tell you that I cannot imagine life without any one of them. Like it or not, this is how I think and these are my opinions.
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Hi Angelica Marie, thanks for the courage to broach such a divisive issue.
It is truly interesting how everyone who claims to be "pro-choice" is already born. Bet if you gave them the "choice" in their mother's womb, they would all choose to live!
The truth is, no child chooses death. Not just any death, but a truly horrible death.
Of course, all the bleeding hearts would never consider hurting a kitten or puppy how we heartlessly brutalize our own.
Shame on us!!!
Ed
G'evening all, this is an open discussion, though we differ in opinions. I understand you're passionate about this subject, let's respect one another. (Please)
Thank you all for sharing.
Respectfully,
Angelicamarie
By definition alone, it is the "pro-life" faction of society that appears to have an "intolerance" issue, dismissing as invalid any opinion other than their own. Labeling pro-choicers as "overly tolerant" by being "excessively PC" is actually being intolerant and that is a dichotomy. THIS is why this should NOT be a political decision. Pro-choice became a sociopolitical movement BECAUSE pro-lifers voted in laws creating a situation where ONLY their opinion mattered. Pro-choicers changed that by their votes. The difference - only pro-lifers believe they have the right to make the CHOICE for everyone.
There are many methods of birth control available from IUDs with a 98% success rate, to the pill with a 91% rate, to the pill with a condom combined, which has a 99.9% success rate. The choice about pregnancy NEEDS to be discussed before sex is initiated, preferably LONG BEFORE, so that hormones and emotion are not affecting those decisions. The MOST effective way to ensure no pregnancy and no possible abortion is ABSTINENCE. THAT is certainly the BEST choice for males. If the choice is to have sex, the decision about a possible pregnancy should be determined beforehand. But a pregnancy can happen even when the failure rate for a particular method of birth control is only 0.001, so the solution to THAT scenario also NEEDS to be decided beforehand and BOTH parties are responsible for their participation. There also is always the day after pill which SHOULD require both parties to participate, and the pill should be available on hand to take immediately after sex. Again BOTH parties need to participate, so that decisions don't change after the fact. It can't be left to one partner to decide for both. If one partner changes their mind, then the laws in place decide who has the final say.
The choices are numerous as to birth control methods with effectiveness up to 99% for implants and IUDs, 91% for the pill, and 99.9% for the pill and condoms used together. Conversation BEFORE sex needs to be explicit, extensive, and honest, without emotion and hormones controlling the conversation. In other words, LONG BEFORE sex is initiated. However, that is NOT a reasonable expectation to have of young sexually active CHILDREN under what is considered a reasonable age of consent. Kids have sex. REALLY.
As I said, here in the US this IS a political issue. And in the past, choices HAVE been made FOR different societies and cultures such as a one-child initiative or an initiative deciding female fetuses should be aborted, or put to death. In a political system THAT CAN happen again. Here in the US, there are statistics showing 20 white, 37 Hispanic, and 57 African American absentee fathers. The taxpayer bears that responsibility. THAT is why I believe the decision should be made by the person who will have to live with the choice and end result.
This is also why we vote on these issues. Let the outcome of the vote decide.
Peace
Dadnabbit
Hey Angel, hope you're doing OK. You've picked a doozy of a subject. Unfortunately, there are many who will give you a hard time when you voice your opinion if it does not meet with their idea of what is "right". Don't let the discussion get you upset, it's not worth it. You post frequently and I have faith that by now you know who can discuss and who can only argue using tactics like judgment, abuse, and name-calling. With any divisive subject, you'll also find those who insist on twisting your statements and opinions to fit their narrative. MOST of us here relish a discussion and value the right to a difference of opinion.
Peace
Nancy
Just an observation, but the opposite of pro-life is pro-death, not pro-choice. This is a war of words, words that are used to sanitize a morally corrupt action. So those who are getting self-righteous about the use of words need to read my first sentence again. This particular political debate is all about words and how they are used. Thank you so much for listening. If, in fact, you did.
Pro Life means opposing abortion and euthanasia. The meaning of pro choice is advocating legal abortion. Just because someone does not oppose abortion, does not mean they are Pro death. That is a very limited outlook.
Dadnabbit
Angel, like I said, there are those who will attempt to twist your words to fit their narrative. I will try not to continue with this discussion with someone who cannot discuss without using only nasty commentary and judgmental opinions. I enjoy informed educated discussions, not personally motivated arguments. That is my choice. :)
Peace
Nancy
I am well aware of what the English language means. And you have apparently missed my point altogether. You were complaining about people's words, how they use them, i.e. twisting words is one example that you use. And in fact, you have used it more than once to criticize those with a viewpoint different than your own. I was demonstrating that this abortion debate is a war of words. And that sanitizing killing or murder by using more sanitized words does not make it any less ending a life. If you want to look at somebody who is twisting words, I would suggest that you look at your side of the street and the opinion that you represent.
And by the way, Nancy, why is my opinion considered judgmental while your opinion is considered valid? Perhaps you can explain this logic. You might want to also consider holding your own instead of posting to other people about how victimized you are being by other posters. Just a thought.
Dagnabbit; I have enjoyed reading your posts. There has been more excitement on this thread than I have seen in a long while. There is life in the old ostomate site after all - no pun intended.
I can see in certain conditions that an abortion is needed, but we're back to the old adage.. "When does life begin?" Being able to abort a baby during delivery is nothing short of murder.. 16 weeks should be at the very outside when you can abort.. After that, you must deliver.. But you can only abort in certain cases.. i.e., rape, incest, etc.. If you want to have sex without protection, then you must pay the piper and have that baby.. Why should taxpayers foot the bill for your sex life?
Dadnabbit,
Right on! Pro Choice is NOT pro death. Everybody is pro life and nobody likes abortion. It's about having the right to make that difficult choice yourself, ...not have it made for you by somebody else.
You mean like the choice that you're making to speak for everybody? Please re-read your response where you speak for everybody and how they feel about abortion. You state, and I quote "Everybody is pro-life and nobody likes abortion." I find it increasingly difficult these days to believe that women who use abortion as a form of birth control hate it. In fact, I'm pretty sure they love it since it is a quick fix for the problem.
Why don't women make the choice before they have sex, not after they get pregnant? As some have stated, why should the taxpayer have to pick up the bill for your sex life and your bad choices? If the big issue here is choice, then make it before you have sex.
Harley Doll---Statistics prove that the abortion rate has dropped to the lowest level in ten years. That being said, to avoid any chance of pregnancy and possible abortion, perhaps men should make the choice to abstain from having sex, as the law currently states it is the woman's choice to decide about an abortion. Of course, the male can always sue his sex partner. But, until the laws change, that is just the fact.
You claimed I called your posted opinion "judgmental". Well, you did just tell weirdnewlife that she is "speaking for everyone", and that you believe "in fact"...that you are "pretty sure that ("women who employ abortion as a form of birth control") "love it". A quick fix? Now that's a judgmental opinion. And you called me "self-righteous" and "morally corrupt", which is name-calling to back up your opinion. Also, definitely judgmental. And your attempt to use irony-- which is defined as an "especially mocking type of humor"-- is you passing judgment. These are all opinions. You stated yours, I stated mine. That's all there is to it.
Dadnabbit