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I'm Sorry

Posted by iMacG5

I feel the need to apologize to all you folks from around the globe who’ve looked up to us Americans because of our system of governing ourselves, caring for those in need and trying to protect the entire free world from the horrors of inhumane communities.  I’ve been proud to be an American since I began to realize how wonderful we could be for ourselves and the entire world.  We vote tomorrow for a new president and the shameful campaign leading up to this day will be over.  I’m not sure the pain will go away and I know we’ll be forever scarred.  You guys and gals who have admired us from afar deserved better than what we demonstrated.  We’ve set some standards to be envied, in a good way, by some less fortunate folks.  We fought for and attained a social status for all to be proud of, to be enjoyed and protected by us and revered by others.  I thought we we were excellent examples or respect for all people of all races, colors and creeds.  The word “together” has always meant a great deal to me.  Together we’ve attained a stature we could never get to alone; not in our relationships, our families, our communities and, of course, our government.  Hey, look what we’ve accomplished here at MAO together.  

I’m apologizing because this is a government OF the people FOR the people.  So I’m part of it.  I promise to do whatever I can to never  again experience such a sad, shameful expression of what Democracy should never be.

Please forgive me and all those who unwittingly allowed this to happen.



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Primeboy : Mike,
I think a lot of Americans have come to feel a deep sense of loss of common values and unity as fellow citizens, regardless of their political persuasion. Making things worse, two-thirds of the voting public have now come to believe that both presidential candidates are untrustworthy. I am reminded of an honor code used in several military academies which states: "A cadet will not lie, cheat, steal or tolerate those who do." Too bad many of our politicians won't live up to this same standard. If they did, perhaps civic pride would be restored.
Bill : Hello Mike.
Thank you for your post as it is good to hear some common-sense discussion from ordinary people about the embarrassing spectacle our politicians subject us to at times. Your country does not have exclusive rights to political (whats' the word I'm looking for?) - CRAP (will have to suffice!)It seems to be the underlying trait for a great many who enter that line of work and if they don't have it when they first enter politics, they appear to learn it very quickly once they are in amongst their fellow politicians. I have always maintained that there should be an option on the voting papers that allows people to vote for 'NONE OF THE ABOVE' and if we end up with no politicians at all perhaps we could devise a thoroughly modern way of finding out what the people want on every issue. Just a thought!
Best wishes
WAB : I learned a lot about America......watching this election...progress........catch words......

No sense of decency, the Almighty dollar ( unbelievable what is spent on elections in the USA), religion in politics, Guns, Guns, Guns and more guns,lying seems to be the new norm, Calling Bernie Sanders Comrade, groping women amd he is still here, racism galore,being a bully and that is just not the canditates, a misguided press looking for more viewers, ......make America great Again......but not with these would make a great reality TV show.......alas.......I have a spare room if anyome wants to move out of the the Wild West all over again........
h5g : While you can only speak for yourself, I see some agree with your sentiments, some do not, so I can only suppose you speak for yourself. I ask them, where else could you live the life we do in America, I.E., no where is it safer, democratic, etc. So I'd think be careful in your sorrow, no where else is better than our grand US of A. We need greater resiliency and pride, but not shaming. Peace.
iMacG5 : Hey PB, Bill and WAB. You guys get it and I thank you for your thoughts. WAB's spare room sounds kinda inviting.
I don't know you h5g but, if you're that happy with the way things are, I'm envious but I do appreciate your thoughts.
AusRob : From my point of view here in Australia... America is the laughing stock of the world. I thought that our politicians were a bad lot, but they pale into harmless compared to the USA. Too late now for reflection... just don't drag us into more world conflict and financial depression.

iMacG5 : OK Robert, I won't.
CharK63 : But what happens NOW!!? It's very scary to think the more than half of Americans might approve of Donald Trump! And oh my gosh! We have to keep hearing his darn voice! What will happen to our country's morals if we endorse this candidate. I can't stand to watch anymore. I hope something drastic turns it all around by morning.
CharK63 : And WAB if Trump is allowed to make good any of his promises it's possible some in our nation will no longer enjoy the freedoms we take for granted sometimes. We may have to start all over from scratch to salvage the reforms we've accomplished for our citizens. Woe is me. When I saw the audience respond to his speech on who wants to kick out all the Muslims, I felt a chill go down my spine.
CharK63 : Sorry that was H5g not WAB. I apologize.
WAB : Is ok no apology necessary..........CharK63...........the sun came up today..and a new world order.......The world will be in shock for the next few days...........
chet8625 : The United States has nothing to apologize for. Are we perfect? No.

But the US provides 66% of the world's AIDS funding (5 times more than the next closest country), $32 billion in foreign aid, only one of four countries that meet the funding guidelines of NATO. I can go on and on.

And despite what everyone sees on TV hundreds of thousands of people still apply to come to the United States every year and about 11 million came illegally. Why? Because despite our flaws, flaws every country has, it's still a great country.
WAB : The US donated the most funds (net) in foreign aid last year at $32bn. But when looking at the percentage of the country’s national income given to foreign aid, the US contribution is less impressive. It spent 0.19% of its national income, which is the same percentage as Portugal and Japan.

Out of the DAC countries, Sweden was the most generous – it was the first to meet the 0.7% target in 1974 – donating 1.1% of its GNI to foreign aid, which works out at about $6.2bn. Next came Luxembourg, at 1.07%, then Norway at 0.99% and Denmark at 0.85%. The UK was fifth, higher than Germany at 0.41%, France at 0.36% and Switzerland at 0.49%. In total the UK spent $19bn on foreign aid last year, compared to $16bn from Germany and $10bn from France.
chet8625 : People in need don't care if you're donating 0.7% or 5% of your GNP. They need real dollars and that is where the US leads.
CharK63 : Please don't misunderstand me. I love my country and I'm grateful that I enjoy being a citizen of the great United States. That is why it worries me to think we may be taking a step backward with this election.

We fought so hard to gain our civil rights and civil liberties I'm appalled to see the haters in society encouraged to vent in public their biased opinions.

I'm a Native American from one of the "civilized nations" forced from their homes to walk the Trail of Tears yet I'm proud to be an American.

What makes this country great is the acceptance of diversity. Let's keep our country strong!
mild_mannered_super_hero : "The United States has nothing to apologize for. Are we perfect? No.

But the US provides 66% of the world's AIDS funding (5 times more than the next closest country), $32 billion in foreign aid, only one of four countries that meet the funding guidelines of NATO. I can go on and on.

And despite what everyone sees on TV hundreds of thousands of people still apply to come to the United States every year and about 11 million came illegally. Why? Because despite our flaws, flaws every country has, it's still a great country. "

i would agree. the american people have spoken, loud and clear..... we cannot continue on with the foolish policies of the last 8 years, that is what the election was all about, not donald trump.
WAB : How sad..wake up America..the world is not all about you.... you elected a bully........hope you survive not were the rest of the world is sad.......scary forget election is about Donald Trump......alas...... get ready for a wild ride...........a global ride............
Alb012869 : This election was a turning point, whether good or bad. For those of us that have health concerns, a lot hangs in the balance and for Americans as a hole. Change is needed, how it gets done, with or without, will make an impact on our living circumstances and our pockets. The way in which America cares for her sick and elderly is appalling. For those who work hard and try to be an active part of the working class, this system is in need of repair. We work for as long as we can until we become unable to do so. If you have certain diagnosis, you do not qualify for private disability, and you have to fight to get what you have been required to pay. Your comments are valid but our Healthcare problems was one of the issues addressed. As a previous Medical Biller for the last 20+ years, much of the problems where generated in the early - mid 90's with an strong platform for Healthcare reform. Thus the birth of HIPPA and increased Healthcare budgets. There is more involved issues than just having to have healthcare. Socialistic healthcare is in the horizon, this was just the first push. How many of us would be on the list to receive the medical help we need. Sorry to change the mood of the conversation, just wanted to bring back the focus of what could be an important issue for this dite.
iMacG5 : So about 60 million voted for one candidate and nearly the same number for the other. Not sure what that means except different folks want different things or different approaches to the same things. It’s not even important what I think about the issues. It’s about the approach to making things better for this best country in the entire world. I won’t ever deny we have faults and we could do better in many areas. We’re capable of doing just that as we’ve done before.
Thanks so much to all of you. We Americans have a responsibility and I’m confident, despite where we are today, we’ll be the America we’ve been so proud of and all you friends from other parts of the world will thank us for showing our best selves. Please don’t construe these remarks to resemble in any way the “Make America Great Again” crap we heard so often recently. America is great NOW and will demonstrate its greatness in the next few months. This has been a very unfortunate setback but we’ll be better for it.
My sincere thanks to you American friends and thanks to our foreign friends for your constructive support
iMacG5 : Hey Alb, affordable healthcare is certainly one of the biggest concerns. We have a huge task in front of us and we're going to do whatever needs to be done. It'll all work out if we work together. Thanks for the reminder.
AusRob : America has spent 22 of the past 25 years involved in war fare overseas and at how many trillions of dollars & for what outcomes? How many hospitals, child care places, schools, universities, employment positions could that have been translated into? Time for America to "stay home" & take care of its own !

Robert... Australia.
Past Member: The South in the USA has been fighting the civil war since it's inception in the 1860's, and they are fighting it still. The biggest difference is that now a large segment of the Midwest has joined the war, with promises of employment from the very someone who shipped jobs from this country to over 22 foreign nations, merely for greater personal profit. The candidate who won this election did so with a rhetoric of hypocrisy, divisiveness, hatred, lies and manipulation of the peoples' emotions. IT WAS DISGRACEFUL. We now have the results, and the USA had best recognize that much of the progress this country has made since the birth of this nation stands to suffer the consequences of polarizing beliefs. I AM disappointed that we do not have our first female president, but I am in NO WAY surprised. Women in America STILL DO NOT have equal rights, the ERA being quashed 40 years ago. Blacks in this country had the right to vote before women did. The angry and disappointed black population who DID NOT come out to vote for the candidate they were sure was winning due to media presentation, now have concerns about their position within the community, and fears of a new wave of stop and frisk. And the population of immigrants, both legal and illegal, stand to see eviscerated the entire basis for the belief in FREEDOM for ALL. This country was built on immigrants. There are laws in place, such as e-verify, to protect the country and it's borders, but we do not enforce them nor pursue the prosecution of those who violate those laws, both businesses and citizens. Now we are threatened with extreme measures that shake the very core of the American way of life, ironically by one of the most flagrant abusers of these same laws. Someone who hired illegal workers for his home, his casinos, and his construction of buildings, and whose immigrant girlfriend worked illegally in this country, got pregnant and then married the billionaire to make herself and her son legal. I do not believe in a different set of rules and laws for different people, and I also DO NOT believe that a 70 year old man will change the behaviors he has practiced free of consequence for his entire life. HOWEVER, despite the sad tone of this post, I AM PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN, but I must admit that for the first time in my life I will state that I am glad I have no children. I wish us all...
h5g : And still, this is the best place in the world to live and carry on. It's upward and onward, to greater things. Too many martyrs and not enough resilient forward thinkers. It def could be worse, and put your money where your mouth is if you feel the grass is greener. We should all put on our grownup panties, smile and be rid of your holy negativity; live and practice grace. Peace. It's a great life! ????
kmedup : Hmm.... "There is a saying, "Be careful what you wish for." I am now curious about Trump-elect's promise. "I alone can fix your problems." Markets in pharmaceuticals have surged. Perhaps we will see more busses loaded with Americans purchasing their meds from Canada. Will the rules for nepotism and conflict of interest change?

I am waiting to see what Trump can deliver to the people he promised he could do. I was astonished, then angry and now, trying to suppress a giggle. Where does his truthfulness lie (double entendre)? He can also, according to your Supreme Court ruling, be taken to court for things he did before he became the president-elect so what about his hearing scheduled today for Trump (University)?

So much money spent over the election on both sides - money that could have benefitted health, education, infrastructure and veterans etc. thus really keeping America great like it has been all along.

Canada's election process occurs in approximately 6 weeks (a little longer this last election) and anyone - even a farmer can become an elected officer like one of our former premiers of Alberta (Stemach) and yes, a drama teacher can become the Prime Minister (Trudeau). Getting elected here does not depend on how much money you have, who you think you are and which races you like or don't like.

Good luck America. I am still on your side. I really did not like both choices but when push came to shove I would rather have chosen the poison I know rather than the poison I don't know.
Bill : Hello everybody.
This post of mine is not just about the USA but about humans throughout the world.
Are we really surprised that more than 50% of human beings are selfish in themselves and antagonistic towards anyone outside their own inner circle? I look around the world and perceive that the human condition of self centeredness needs a lot of rational thinking and concerted action to be able to counterbalance it. Throughout history, we have never really seemed to be able to manage and control the bigots and the bullies who rally the people by appealing to the own self-interested instincts. What we see is an animalistic response that can only be counterbalanced by rational, logical and moralistically motivated thinking and doing. It is surely up to those who believe in a different way, to try to persuade as many others as possible that selfishness is not an answer to modern problems. Perhaps if the message is put across strongly enough, we too could get more than 50% to change sides.
Best wishes
iMacG5 : Hey AusRob, you wrote America should "stay home" and take care of its own. I really didn't write this blog to argue politics. Quite the opposite. But thank you for caring about how we spend our money and I promise I won't tell anyone from outside the USA that they're "on their own" because Robert thinks we shouldn't get involved.
Respectfully questioning your source of world history,
mild_mannered_super_hero : it is what it is, trump won the election despite EVERYONE working against him, the media, democrats and even republicans. DEAL with it, if you can`t, move someplace else. conservatives have endured 8 years of socialist leadership......what did you think would happen ??? do you seriously think anyone in their right mind would vote for 4 more years of the same failed policies. this election was about the american people telling politicians from both parties and the MEDIA {who told us trump didn't have a chance} to bugger off. don't read anything else into it, its that simple.
iMacG5 : So about 60 million voted for one candidate and nearly the same number for the other. Not sure what that means except different folks want different things or different approaches to the same things. It’s not even important what I think about the issues. It’s about the approach to making things better for this best country in the entire world. I won’t ever deny we have faults and we could do better in many areas. We’re capable of doing just that as we’ve done before.
Thanks so much to all of you for pitching in. We Americans have a responsibility and I’m confident, despite where we are today, we’ll be the America we’ve been so proud of and all you friends from other parts of the world will thank us for showing our best selves. Please don’t construe these remarks to resemble in any way the “Make America Great Again” crap we heard so often recently. America is great NOW and will demonstrate its greatness in the next few months. This has been a very unfortunate setback but we’ll be better for it.
My sincere thanks to you American friends and thanks to our foreign friends for your constructive support
chet8625 : Except that about 60 million of us DON'T think this has been an unfortunate setback.
iMacG5 : Hey Chet, the "unfortunate setback" I addressed was in reference to the process, not the candidate who was elected.
veejay : Maybe you good American folk might have to look at compulsory voting as we have here in Australia. Technically, all you have to do is have your name crossed off on the voters roll. There is no-one looking over your shoulder to see if you are actually voting correctly in the booth, but It does make the ambivalent citizens actually get off their backside and go to the polling booth or face a fine. The authorities do track you down eventually.

Much talk of “greatness” but what IS great, is that all the contributors to this topic are free to voice their opinion on this site, which has nothing whatsoever with politics, without any fear of retribution. No hate filled, ideologist is going to come bursting through the door and shoot us dead at our computer screens. That’s what is GREAT! And that’s how I want to live in my Great Southern Land.


P.S. For those who dislike the new squillionaire President elect….you have four years and then you can turf him out. That is democracy.
mild_mannered_super_hero : i am going to post this since its related to this topic. its quite interesting and explains the "why and how" of the electoral college. 95% of folks don't know this, and it takes less than 5 mins to educate yourself. watch it
WAB : Good...MMSH teach why the Good ol USA is not a true democracy..I do not live in the USA and understand the sysytem......your system is a republic.....and your original politicians believed this:

They were not confident that the people had the time, wisdom or level-headedness to make complex decisions, such as those that are often presented on ballots on election day.

Maybe a miracle will happen you you will have asome faithless few ( well 20 ) that will not approve of Trump..............Miracles do happen..........
WAB : Me again..when I look at America I see an Oligarchy ...that is headed to becoming a plutocracy..alas.......
mild_mannered_super_hero : "Democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine percent."
— Thomas Jefferson, Author of the Declaration of Independence, 3rd President of the U. S.

wayne, i am impressed. very few folks in this country realize we are not a democracy....we are a constitutional republic
veejay : Can't wait for the writers of "The Simpsons" to do an appropriate episode. They have ample material to work with.

Can just see the bank notes now....."IN DON WE TRUST"

iMacG5 : Thanks MMSH and WAB for the civics lessons we so need.
V.J., your description of the greatness we're experiencing is right on. (Quotation marks don't seem to work on this site.) I added the Squillionaire word to my vocabulary but hope I never use it politically. Thank you.
HarleyDoll : Sorry, Canada is the best place to live in the world. Even though we have a child for a prime minister at the moment.
iMacG5 : I wonder if, when this is all over, we'll understand the difference between greatness and goodness. I hope we might get to identify greatness if we encounter any and hope we identify lots of goodness that can make us great. I think lots of us Americans are good and lots of our friends from other parts of the world are good and when we work together, we're great! Maybe this debacle we're witnessing is just what we needed to expose all the goodness there is and let it get us to the greatness we deserve.
Bill : Hello Mike.
A 'great' concept.
Let's hope it becomes a practical reality.
Best wishes
iMacG5 : Thanks, Bill. We need to believe goodness will influence our decisions.
And the best to you.
HarleyDoll : It seems to me the 'debacle' of the election is now over, and the 'debacle' of those who are protesting via looting, violence and some downright foot-stomping, (in regards to the democratic process and their unhappiness with the chosen candidate) in the streets is a bigger debacle and concern. Where is the tolerance? Where is the goodness?
iMacG5 : After the popular election in November, on the first Monday after the second Wednesday in December (Not my words; I copied them) there’s a meeting of the electors. Suppose they changed the vote on the basis that if the folks they represent knew before the election the president-elect would appoint a fascist, a moron and some other questionable subjects to most important positions, they wouldn’t have supported him.
I need to blame MMSH and WAB for forcing me to learn more about the government of the country I live in.
Wow! Such mixed emotions. Not about the election but how we got here.

HarleyDoll : I would suggest that you take it a step further and recognize what would happen if it was reviewed or changed or etc. - you have a lot of people who voted for Donald Trump and if you think that the country is divided now, try and take away their democratic process. And they have guns. I seriously think you need to let this go and let the chips fall where they may. The people have spoken, and the popular vote was also debated in Canada regarding Trudeau but there were not protests and violence, and the facts are that Trudeau did not win the popular vote here either, but it is what it is. I can't stand the guy, so I know exactly how it feels. But you need to take this a step further and recognize that if Trump is the screwup you all seem to think he is, then he will screw himself up and there is nothing you will have to 'do', he will do it to himself. Kind of like Hillary did.......
I also think it is important not to appoint yourselves as some kind of 'god' that can determine another person's 'goodness' or not. I mean really?
iMacG5 : I appreciate all your thoughts, HarleyDoll. I'm just a little confused about the very last two sentences. I'm reluctant to judge and not even sure I truly understand the meaning of many things. But God?
How did He or She get in here?
HarleyDoll : As in 'playing God' - determining if another person is full of goodness or isn't. Judging. I did not mean you specifically I meant the collective 'you' as in society in general (I posted that to you because you were the one that brought up 'goodness and greatness'). Having a certain political persuasion is not indicative of a person's goodness or not the last time I checked. I've read enough online about the American election to know that plenty of Americans think it does.
HarleyDoll : As to God, He's in everything from where I sit. And of all the countries in the world and all the elections I have seen or heard in the modern world, the American election drags God into it more than any other. I don't personally believe God voted (lol) or is even interested in your politics. I still remember Gore quoting the Lord. I remember thinking as you just said 'What does God have to do with it'? Well, in American elections, a WHOLE LOT from what I have witnessed.
iMacG5 : Thanks for clearing that up HarleyDoll. I think we're all still learning; some, like me, more than others. Translation is I have more to learn than most.
HarleyDoll : So what do you think about the bigger debacle of the country being divided, and specifically the rioting and such? Honestly, what I am trying to say is that if you are at all interested in how others view the situation, from my p.o.v. I am more chagrined by the riots and division ongoing (and hypocritical tolerance) than I am of the circus that was your election. At least it was entertaining, but these riots show another side of America that isn't pretty at all.
Past Member: HarleyDoll--Do you mean like the students in high school in Pennsylvania walking through the halls with fists raised, yelling "white power" or the students in the middle school cafeteria yelling "build that wall" at Latinos, assumed immigrants ? Or perhaps the trump supporter who yesterday tackled and tossed down a flight of stairs the American student voicing his opinion at a democratic party support group meeting at a university in Ohio? Maybe you believe the W. Virginia officials tweet "so happy to have a classy first lady again, so tired of seeing a (sic) ape in heels" is a good choice for freedom of speech. The hatred and vitriolic outbursts were BEGUN by our newly elected next president, mr trump. His nastiness throughout the campaign, his insistence on inciting anger and fistfights at his rallys, his catering to a very disillusioned, angry segment of americans too foolish to see they were being sold a song and a dance--and too stubborn to admit their candidate has already broken promises that got him elected-- This is what is stirring the pot, not just dissatisfaction with an election. A 70 year old man child with a thin skin and a documented proven vengeful personality is a poor choice for such a position of power. The same man, when asked about trusting the outcome of the election said " I will see if I win, if I lose by the electoral vote well, it is a rigged system and I would have to question it, especially if I won by the popular vote" Funny how it turned out the other way around and yet he is no longer questioning the "rigged" system. This man is having difficulty creating a cabinet because he had NO IDEA of everything that a transition entails. He has appointed men who are perfect examples of questionable judgement and these choices are fueling fear in the populace. I agree that riots are never the answer, however protests won blacks the right to vote, and ended the Vietnam war for America. Obsessive presidential behavior gave us Kent state and Watergate, and I for one do NOT want to go back to having a president who believes that "I am not a crook" just because he says so. I WISH US ALL PEACE
HarleyDoll : No that isn't who I meant, I was thinking more of the pouting and violent millennials in Portland, Los Angeles and elsewhere burning cars and rioting, foot stomping because they didn't get their way. Despicable. You know - VIOLENCE. And unlike you, I do not blame Hillary Clinton for their actions.
FYI people in Canada are on top of what happened during your election, what both sides see as 'valid' (ie the other side sees Hillary as the instigator of violence at Trump rallies, and I have seen videos of her minions planning just that, so don't underestimate that just because we don't live there doesn't mean we haven't seen a great deal of information as well as propaganda - about both of your candidates). Protests are fine, riots are not. That was my point. I saw all the debates and they were embarrassing for the most part. The debacle of the elected candidate is over, the debacle now remains your thoroughly divided country and a party who prides itself on 'tolerance' showing anything but. Maybe you s/b blaming Hillary and the liberal machine for losing this election instead of wasting your angst on people such as myself. They overplayed their hand in the media, I could see it happening before my very eyes. They spent their entire time accusing Trump of 'groping' women, so much so that it became a running joke in some circles. I think it was about the time the PORN STAR made groping accusations that the masses turned off to that stupidity. Undoubtedly Trump has his flaws, and personally I think he's a jerk, but he isn't stupid, and God willing he will get some good people working with him and for him. Most of my American friends gritted their teeth when they had to vote for him, but they did so because they felt the opposite (Hillary) was not an option at ALL. I think many of you don't like the idea of Mike Pence as well but won't come out and say it, let alone your reasons for that dislike. I say too bad, so sad you had 8 years and didn't get it right. Suck it up.
And maybe just maybe you alluding to the 'disillusioned, angry segment of Americans' as 'foolish' didn't bode too well for you either. Seems they got their back up and fought back. There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that Trump got elected because people were sick of political correctness run amok, and he represented the polar opposite. It's really that simple from where I sit. That was another HUGE mistake Hillary made, alluding to those who did not support her in very negative terms. She can be a bit of a dumbass among other things. Neither of your candidates knows how to play the game, but the Donald knew how to better; and that's why he's elected. It was simply a matter of managing the masses. That's what an election campaign is all about. It's how our ridiculous prime minister got into power. I have to put up with him and I cannot STAND him. But I didn't go out and burn a car or other peoples' property. Your last line kind of says it all. What you 'wanted' got expressed via your vote, if you voted. And that's where it ends. It's only four years. We have three left now of the punk on Sussex and some of us are counting the days. It happens. I've learned in life there are more important things in life than politics. Took me a few decades but I've learned it. Not worth the aggravation and yes I have worked in campaigns before. So I think what I am saying is that the fact your country is divided down political lines is far more important than what transpired during your election. The aftermath is going to have great repercussions. Do you know what a self-fulfilling prophecy is? That's what these rioters remind me of. It's like they are demonstrating their own intolerance while complaining about somebody else's. They need to find another way 'cause it isn't going to work.
mild_mannered_super_hero : well spoken harley doll....its interesting to get insight from someone outside the usa . especially someone who doesn't try to impose their opinions on us. we will get this thing worked out as we always have. regards
Past Member: HarleyDoll--YOUR OWN VITRIOLIC OPINION is exactly the kind of discourse feeding the discord in the USA.
DO NOT ASS U ME that I blame Hillary for the violence that is taking place in MY country. You are out of line. I worked for almost two years on this campaign in a republican state (NC), hoping to see a change in policies that have been put into place with which I do not personally agree and to protect those that I do. I actually got to KNOW the candidate, just as I KNOW thedonald from having many friends who worked for him or did construction work for him on his casinos in NJ when we lived there. I witnessed and live with the republican congress preventing a sitting president from appointing a supreme court justice for over 11 months which is HIS JOB.
Much valuable advice was ignored by the Clinton campaign management team regarding financial distress by many Americans. Even advice from former president Bill Clinton--the same Bill Clinton who had a Rhodes scholarship for Economics, and the same man who left presidential office with a $254B (yes Billion) surplus in federal funds. Very unlike our president elect who has a documented court record of six bankruptcies, who moved business out of the US to 22 countries KNOWN for labor violations and abuse, merely for a larger profit, and who has 75 court cases on the dockets as we stand today involving fraud, tax evasion and money laundering.
Far too much weight was placed on the women's vote and also on the questionable temperament of the opponent. But the data I have is from personal close up experience and yours appears to have come from the media--such as the "PORN STAR" comment--there was NO porn star and NO sex tape as was put out there by trump. HE DID, however, ADMIT to SEXUAL ASSAULT, and the expectation of such "privileges" because of his "star status". How very cavalier of you to call that "stupidity".
The assaults that I WITNESSED were personal and real, and many of them are on video, such as the trump supporter arrested for punching a Clinton supporter where thedonald promised to pay the court costs (which he has since reneged on)--or Cory Lewandowski grabbing (seems to be a common theme) the arm of a reporter who was ignoring him, also on video, or the Clinton supporter at a trump rally who QUIETLY STOOD HOLDING A POSTER SAYING CLINTON 2016. After trump pointed him out to his supporters, he was punched and tackled while a trump supporter shouted "gun"--there was NO gun. I was there for these incidents. You saw TV or Internet coverage. The policy changes and plans put out by the president elect and vetted by economics specialists claiming they will save money are already being walked back on by trump. And some of the "new" ideas are ALREADY IN EFFECT, not new as thedonald would have his supporters believe, such as cross state insurance availability. The reason this does not work is because the insurance companies don't practice it, not that they can't---they just don't because of cost effectiveness to themselves. These are the things that got him elected, and he is already changing his tune. And, I AM NOT AFRAID to state---I DO NOT LIKE Mike Pence. He is a homophobe who does not believe that gays should have ANY rights. Or that woman should have access to abortion, and that criminal repercussions should be in play. I believe in freedom of choice. I also personally believe that what you do sexually is your own PERSONAL business, and government has no place there.
Our president elect has 75 court cases against him on the dockets today. Hillary has non, despite what trump fed to his supporters. It was trump supporters that clamored "lock her up" for imagined lawbreaking. Only in third world countries have president elects threatened to lock up their opponents, based on differences of opinion rather than broken laws. Is that what you wish for America? I don't.
You are right--IT IS SIMPLE FROM WHERE YOU SIT--you are not a citizen. You will not reap the benefits or repercussions of the implementation of policy being put into place by our newly elected officials.
YOU have national health care, I do not. I will pay for my medicine and ostomy supplies for the rest of my life. And if republicans have their way, Medicare will disappear, too. Right now, we have mandated medical insurance under penalty of tax fines at exorbitant cost while insurance companies reap BILLIONS of dollars in PROFIT. I personally do not believe that big business needs protecting or tax breaks, especially while the lower echelon of society is being subjected to tax increases. And our own history has PROVEN that tax breaks (given twice within the last 4 decades by republican policies of Reagan and Bush) DID NOT increase nor encourage new business and/or better jobs opportunities, but rather went back into stock options and wealthy pockets. History does tend to repeat.
Oh and by the way, HITLER "managed" the masses with lies and vitriolic speech, too. Not what I want for MY country. SUCK THAT UP.
blueonthetyne : WOW its getting hot in here
HarleyDoll : Thanks mild_mannered_super_hero - I guess the point I was trying to make is if the first poster wants to "apologize" for anything, it would make more sense to apologize for the rioting and foot-stomping and violence that is taking place, not the actual election (which was highly entertaining on a number of levels). I brought up the rioting because I noticed it was being conveniently left out of the conversation. I'm not sure what the first poster was apologizing for, or whom. To apologize for one candidate or the other makes the actual agenda of said apology quite transparent - from where I sit.
One of the issues that does continue to bother me is how people who do not agree with PC run amok are called racists, bigots, homophones - apparently it is a free-for-all to call these people hateful - even if they have never expressed a hateful word, just a different opinion. I see we have a female rabbi in Canada today blaming Trump's rhetoric because somebody painted graffiti slur name for Jews on her door. In Ontario. Right. It's Trump's fault. Oh FER SURE. This 'hate by osmosis' is ridiculous and dangerous. Facts are that Trump is pro Jewish and there is proof of that ( - so I am sick and tired of the liberal propaganda machine. Just because somebody is a chauvinist doesn't mean he is a hater and a racist. They need to back up a bit and tell the truth.
HarleyDoll : Lady, go take your crap out on somebody else. I have news for you, I am nobody's whipping girl online, least of all a mealy-mouthed, frustrated, <fill in the blank> like yourself. Do I make myself clear? Go inform yourself and quit whining. I read the first paragraph of your bs, and have no interest in the rest. Like I said before I learned a long time ago politics is more aggravation than it is worth and you are living proof of that. The only hater I see here is you. The election is over. Get a grip. And quit while you're ahead when discussing Canada. People in North Carolina don't even know where we are most of the time - haha - now you know about our health care do you? Cry me a river. You know nothing.
HarleyDoll : Haha I missed the 'Hitler' reference. Your agenda isn't quite finished unless you drag that into it is it? Go check into the nearest psych ward. Maybe if you're lucky the Donald will pay for it.
iMacG5 : With all due respect, HarleyDoll, I don’t know how it would’ve been appropriate to apologize for stuff that hadn’t happened yet whether I would be responsible for it or not. My first post was written before the election. Maybe I used the wrong word. Maybe I should’ve just expressed disappointment for the absence of respect people demonstrated to each other. You were entertained. I was horrified and ashamed to see how my representatives were conducting themselves.
I really didn’t want to make this a political argument but I guess it’s too late for that and your MNov 15 contribution is taking this to another, perhaps different level.
I hope we can get back to where we once were. For me, it’s difficult to remember that far back.
Past Member: HarleyDoll-- YOU are OBVIOUSLY one very frustrated old biddy. You couldn't be more clear as to your aggressive, arrogantly based ignorance. I call it ignorance because you insist that anyone who does not agree with your portrayal of things is wrong. Typical example, "I read the first paragraph of your bs and had no interest in the rest". And yet, YOU JUST CAN'T STOP YOURSELF FROM SHARING YOUR NASTYNESS. You have made me reconsider my original thoughts about your comments-- I no longer consider yours a valid opinion as it is merely sad rhetoric, and an opinion generally reflects considerable thought, whereas your uncontrolled angry diatribe portrays the fact that you are incapable of an intelligent discussion if it does not cater to your beliefs. You OBVIOUSLY did not comprehend what I wrote, so maybe try re- reading it and you will soothe that angry beast inside. DO NOT, put words in my mouth and don't ASS U ME you know anything about me. You refuse to accept a difference of opinion from your own without being a bitter old biddy. Someone else's truth really seems to punch your ticket. OH,and HONEY I'll pit my KNOWLEDGE against your anger and hatred any day. My husband was raised in Canada and once again your assumptions prove your ignorance. When do you plan on growing into your 64 years and being able to hold an adult conversation that does not kiss your A$$?
Past Member: HarleyDoll--I am willingly withdrawing from this horrible discussion, as you and I will never see things in the same light. I cannot continue to allow you to bleed all over my soul.
Past Member: Oh,and HarleyDoll--if you are feeling the absolute need to have the last word, go ahead, I promise not to respond to continue this animosity between us.
HarleyDoll : Peace my ass. You're as phony as a three dollar bill. If you s/b "apologizing" for anything at all it should be that your party of choice has attempted to make the USA a place where you are not permitted a difference of opinion without being labelled as a hater, racist, bigot, angry and called names. You are the absolute and utter EPITOMY of what those riots represent. Angry, bitter, stomping your feet, lashing out at others because they have the AUDACITY to think differently than you. I've seen it all before, heard it all before. You are just another spoiled brat who did not get their way and are lashing out at everybody. You don't get to do that to me without me calling you out on it. Here's something that will put you over the edge. I actually agree with some of the things that Mr. Trump proposes. So does half the adult population of the USA. Seems you lost this round. Have some grace and quit acting like a spoiled toddler. In case you haven't heard, IT'S OVER.
Past Member: IMacG5-Mike--I extend my apologies to you for allowing this conversation to take me to a place that I never intended to go.
HarleyDoll : By the way there, dadnabbit, if you want to go 'personal' I'm quite good at those kind of insults. Don't start something you can't finish, you stinking little amateur:)
HarleyDoll : My post didn't take anything to 'another level'. It brought up the riots that the liberals are having throughout the US, and I ASKED A QUESTION, what did you think about it. Hmmmm. Avoidance of that topic by all concerned. So sorry to bring up the elephant in your livingroom and it seems the dagnabbit poster took offence to that and decided to namecall and go on and on and ON about her issues. Sorry I don't cotton well to those kind of passive aggressive people online and she does not GET to bully me or abuse me because I believe differently than she does. That's how we do things up north here. It's how I do 'em anyways.
WAB : At last we are chatting about someting that is not about our but still chating about funny...............
mild_mannered_super_hero : well this certainly has been an interesting discussion, and i prefer an intelligent disagreement to a boring one where everyone agrees!! i reread harley dolls post and her point {in my opinion| about the riots and the lefts intolerance is well taken. from my point of view, the left, who demanded that we be tolerant during the last 8 years of complete nonsense {transgender bathrooms in grade school as an example} is now burning down shit and rioting simply because their candidate didn't win. how INTOLERANT of them. trump hasn't even taken office yet, but their world has ended?? trump won, let him take office and give him a little time , lets see what he can do. thats how the game is played.
iMacG5 : Hey all, I think I really do respect almost all opinions based on the energy it took to develop that opinion. If one's opinion evolved from facts it's probably a good idea to pay attention and maybe learn something. If one's opinion is based solely on their feelings I still respect it but might have an opinion very conflicting. It's only important if that opinion is the basis for actions that might influence the quality of one's being.
I apologized for the way we Americans handled our campaigns and strongly object to the behavior of many after the election.
I'm not sorry for starting this thread though I never thought it would go here. I'm glad we continue to think, to have opinions, to share some facts and usually treat each other respectfully. So we might screw up sometimes. So what?
HarleyDoll : Hello iMacG5, I don't think you have anything to collectively apologize for, as an American I mean. I have had American friends online for 20 years and still do. We talk a lot of politics, a LOT - lol. It is certainly a current event and a hot topic so I think it was great for you to bring it up. The only thing I would like to say is that (and this is along the same theme I have mentioned previously) I honestly thought my opinion would be valued. I knew it might not be popular with some people but I never anticipated the novels written to me by an unhappy US voter, to the point of calling names and using Hitler in her responses. For my part, I don't believe in wasting time. I knew by the nasty posts it was a waste of time so rather than circle around each other like two dogs itching for a fight for pages and pages of posts, I just nipped it in the bud, and set my boundary right off the bat. That wasn't appreciated either by the other poster and she continued to personally attack. So that's fine, but I just am not interested in those kinds of people or posts and that is my way of shutting that down. And that is also - coincidentally - the only thing I think that s/b apologized for. The shutting down of others' opinions for the sake of PC, using that as an excuse to level hate and names towards others, such as racist, bigot, hatred. People are not that one-dimensional and adults should know this. It is that very hypocrisy that I see in the riots I asked about. I'm not terribly surprised that nobody would address the issue other than the one person who agreed with me. Maybe that's what the other side should be looking at. I heard that Oprah made overtures about letting things move on, stop the violence etc., - and her supporters turned on her. This IS something that some Americans should be ashamed of. Tonight somebody put a statement by Dr. Martin Luther King on my facebook, about how violence does not solve anything. It was very intelligent and true. Bottom line iMacG5 is some people need to GROW UP, those are the ones who w/b apologizing. Yes, the campaign itself was a circus and it WAS entertaining - especially for those of us who watched Saturday Nite Live - I thought Alec Baldwin was going to give me a stroke he was so damned funny. But I did not appreciate Kate McKinnon singing Cohen's 'Hallelujah' as some kind of anthem for Hillary Clinton and her supporters. Cohen was MUCH BIGGER than either of your candidates. Just sayin'.....
veejay : Glad you're not sorry you started this thread iMac Mike, and you are right, it certainly got the ostomates 'talking'. Quite a distraction from the usual subjects.

Everyone needs to vent at some stage, it's good for the soul but as my grandmother used to say, no-one changed their mind just because they lost an argument.

I do enjoy your writing Mike, it shows the wisdom of the ages. Lets hope everyone can move on. It's not a perfect world but it is the only one we've got.

WAB : I enjoyed this thread...and look at all the hits it had......was interesting and thought provoking..........let's face it..what happens in the good old USA affects us all in some way or another..and this election was interesting , to say the least.........and is true life goes on and we adapt.........I hope it keeps running this thread as it will get more interesting for sure...after Trump is sworn in..........will be an interesting ride.......
chet8625 : This whole thread has made my stoma want to crawl back inside my body. :)
iMacG5 : HarleyDoll, before we continue, you need to tell me what w/b and s/b means. If the s in s/b is like a male child then I got it. W/b is still a mystery.
There are a lot of bright folks here and I very much appreciate their comments. I’m especially thankful for the kind words from some of you and I know there are lots more wise thoughts just waiting for the right time. Maybe that’s right after I write something really stupid.
It is what it is and I’m hoping for signs of stuff to encourage optimism for all of us. I don’t know how that can happen when we just demonstrated a near 50/50 split but I’m hopeful. And Chet, don’t let your stoma hide. By itself it might be smarter than some of our candidates.
Past Member: IMacG5 I believe s/b is should be and w/b is will or would be. I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong.
HarleyDoll : S/B = should be. W/B = a typo.

You mentioned you were just learning about all this tuff about the electoral voting and such, well here's something that may or may not interest you. I'm sure dadnabbit will find it interesting. college-voters/?utm_source=161117ALPACNEWOPENSMREZBAT2&utm_medium=email& utm_campaign=161117ALPACNEWOPENSMREZBAT2
blueonthetyne : in the words of the great man "ALL YOU NEED IS LOVE"
iMacG5 : Thanks, friends, for the clarification . Thanks, also HD for the information. I'm feeling that the more I learn the unhappier I get butI need to work through it.
Blue, hopefully, we won't forget that most important message.
kmedup : Hmm, now your leader-elect says he doesn't need you anymore with "you" being his voters. He'll need your help in 4 years, he says. So, while he is continuing to hire foreign workers for Mara Largo, what happened to "Make in America and Hire America." It is not that somewhere a village has lost its idiots rather the idiots have lost their village. Just saying ... I am still hoping for "some" best as many of my friends are Americans.
WAB : 54084955956167/?pnref=story
WAB : and is a wow what is happening
iMacG5 : Thanks WAB. It's a great site. Beyond that, WOW os right!
Past Member: trump has now requested 78 H2B visas for immigrant help at Mar Largo, for cooks, waiters, housekeepers because he claims he cannot find help for those positions in Florida. He's probably right, because most qualified cooks/chefs, waiters/waitresses, and housekeepers will not put up with being verbally abused and grabbed and groped, but whose fault is that? What happened to Hire American, trump.
chet8625 : "trump has now requested"

He requested them 6 months ago and they will be gone in 5.

Still, not a good look for him.
iMacG5 : Thanks WAB. My education continues.
DonBrown1943 : Neither politics nor religion can be discussed calmly and logically because people feel their lives are invested in their beliefs and if they can be persuaded to change their beliefs, their entire lives have have been invalidated. As for me, I am now afraid to contact half the people in this thread, even though I had been about to do that because I share some of the same interests. Now I'm afraid to risk the vitriol and name-calling I saw on both sides of the fight. And that is what this was, not a discussion or debate.
iMacG5 : Hey Don, I never expected some of these exchanges and I’m not sure how I feel about the whole thing. Initially, I was being critical of the entire system and how we, the people, allowed it to act so poorly. It got to be where it is today and probably embarrasses every American with a brain provided there’s a heart and soul in that same body. Now I wonder if we’re closer to a civil war or a revolution. It’s so sad.
Thanks for your comments,
DonBrown1943 : Mike, no one could possibly hold you responsible for those posts. As far as your apology, I too am ashamed of the rioting and illegal behavior that went on during the campaign and installation. Some of those who posted thought you were apologizing for the outcome of the election but I did not think that. I understood you and do not think ill of you at all. In fact, I respect you and Bill and NJ for comments that attempted to calm the posters. The people from Canada and Australia went too far but those who responded from the USA went too far in their responses. As an old minister, I have seen this happen so many times that I am ashamed of both political parties and sometimes even of people who claim to be Christians but don't act as such. I don't know how you could have done any better than you did. Hopefully it is over now so we can forget it and move on. Thanks, Mike, from Don.
DonBrown1943 : I also agree with you about our status. Both political parties have added to the strife and division to the point that I am very concerned about our future. If we can't turn this around, there may be tragedy in our future. People in Texas and other Southern states are actually preparing for civil war. To my great fear, Texas is ready. Something must change quickly or it will be too late.
iMacG5 : Don, I sincerely appreciate your input and thank you for your understanding. If we can encourage folks to lose the anger, look at the facts and recognize the absolute beauty of working together, we’ll get back to being the best of the best. I will remain optimistic because of folks like you, Bill, Bain and the other kind caring participants here.
Thanks so much,
Katej26 : The problems from vested interest having no sense or shame have just grown and grown in the last thirty years. This isn't a US only issue, and it is really damaging democracy and sense of social well-being in the West. However, as low as good people remain to peck away at this disorder, lawfully and resolutely, I believe things will get better. Government is in a mess,in several countries. If all good people, keep doing their best to turn things around, even through just being thoughtful, kind and courteous, goodness will prevail. If this includes being uncharacteristically vocal, so be it. In the UK, many of us are bewildered. Mr Trump says Jump! and our Government says How high would please you? Our Parliamentary set-up involves the DUP accepting a deal as the Government did not have enough MP's. Worse, they sit for hours to discuss their pay and pensions but for other important issues? They have gone home! Centuries ago, this would be known as a rotten parliament. Much of it is a millionaires club. Vested interest? The sugar industry financing the leading party, whilst sugar in our diet is under review. You could not make it up! Hmm..... On second thoughts, perhaps we should ask the French to invade again. It has been a while!
Katej26 : As long as good people! Spellcheck!
iMacG5 : Hi Kate. Thanks for reminding me I posted this. Unfortunately, for me at least, things seem to have gotten much worse and we've gotten to embrace the insanity. I'm going to dwell on your suggestion that goodness will prevail. If we lose all hope we'll have nothing. Then what? The French might think it's just a waste of their time and tell us all to screw off! Respectfully with a grin, Mike
iMacG5 : Dadnabbit's wisdom follows in this post. Comment: iMacG5, Well, now it seems there is the suggestion for a nomination for the Nobel Peace prize--- for the man who threatened a war as a solution to control another sovereign nation's implementation of the same nuclear power that the US has. Whether we respect that nation or not...we are a nation that is supposed to respect the right of self governing. We have international communities and laws to help to mediate questionable actions of each other, but these laws do not give one country control over another. Kim Jong Un's threats against the US need to be addressed, but I do not want to go into a war that will kill millions unless you are in a bunker. I will be more than happy to see a denuclearization of No.Korea, as well as the rest of the world, but history warns me of the duplicity of that particular regime, and I anxiously await being proven wrong in my suspicions. A man who starves his own nation while HE gains weight, as well as implementing the deaths of so many, including the death of an American student for "stealing" a poster invites suspicion, as does the man who likes to poke the bear with his arrogance. I see this acquiescence as a means of abating monetary sanctions, not an end to No.Korea's nuclear powers. But one can dream, and hope, and vote.rnPeace
dadnabbit : So, now we have a scurrilous leader (oh wait, which one does that describe?) Let me start over. We now have a "friendship agreement" between two "leaders" (neither of whom seems to understand or value what a friend/ally really is), that will supposedly lead us to denuclearization. Problem is--denuclearization of whom? No. Korea is publishing in its state newspaper and on its state TV that EVERYONE will completely denuclearize. trump on the other hand is claiming world peace and a win with NoKorea because they have agreed to "consider future denuclearization". NoKorea is touting the lifting of sanctions and the END to military maneuvers, cleverly called "war games". VP pence claims military maneuvers will continue, but there will be no "war games". All it's cost the USA was a little bit of credibility, with trump already walking back to the possibility of "in one year you may see me change my opinion if things don't go as planned..." from "I trust him, I believe he is a good man who loves his people..." (guess we can just disregard the FACT that those people are starving)and (family members threatening Kim's regime excluded) "to we'll just have to wait and see". To claim this meeting was a success is premature at best. Important step, yes, but despite what trump would have USA citizens believe, other presidents HAVE had negotiations with No.Korea which were immediately abandoned by No.Korea. Those meetings just did without the Photo Op entertainment of trump. At this moment trump's claims seem a bit like the "Mission Accomplished" claim of a past president that didn't turn out to be so quite so accomplished. So, I guess we WILL just have to "wait and see." A very limited victory at best, especially if it is at the expense of military protection for an ally, South Korea. Peace (at all cost?)
mild_mannered_super_hero : lol......sorry trump haters.....he`s still the president !!!!! there is an outstanding chance that he will be in office for 7 more years. depending on which criminal/socialist the dems decide to run against him will determine the degree of landslide victory the AMERICAN PEOPLE will hand down. you have no one to run against him, you have no more dirty tricks to used them all already. get used to it or move...i hear canada is really nice. rant off mmsh
dadnabbit : REAL AMERICANS don't run away to another country. They stay and vote, in the hopes of honest & fair change. It's called the AMERICAN dream. They don't run around calling their opponents criminal--at least not until the final judgement by the system is in, and they don't scream "lock her up" to incite hatred and rouse a crowd to sway opinions with LIES. Nor do they make up stories about Kennedy conspiracies, or holocaust survivors, or steal money from taxpaying citizens to make money playing golf at their own clubs. These types of actions are the actions of a COMMON DICTATOR. The PROVEN LIES coming out of the mouth of the most powerful person in the nation should concern EVERYONE. They are NOT "alternative facts" --there is no such thing. There is right or wrong, truth or lies. I'm quite happy living in AMERICA. trump's insanity doesn't really touch MY world. I'm already retired, already collecting what I've paid into for almost 40 years, including employee and employer taxes, and I live quite comfortably. I have no children to worry about, and am far enough out of the line of fire for someone wanting to attack the USA. But I DO FEEL for my fellow AMERICANS suffering from the possibility and likelihood of a drastically different future. You know, like your kids and grandkids. Considering trump is the one facing FRAUD charges in the handling of monies donated to a charitable foundation (monies instead misused to purchase paintings of himself and safaris for his sons) I'd look carefully at the end result of the actions of a man who believes and acts as if he is above the law. Right now there are MORE THAN 70 outstanding lawsuits pending against trump. And for all his bluster before the inauguration, he has already SETTLED many others. Innocent--I don't think so. And Yes, he will be able to pardon the MANY WRONGS that are coming to light. BUT that does not mean they did not happen. It does amaze me that so many Americans are OK with that, but that's their right. I do however, believe that it speaks volumes as to the moral and ethical lacking showing in so many people today. After all, many also believe it was OK to cheat their way through school...I never did and still don't. I DON'T HATE trump. I can't be bothered wasting that energy. I DO BELIEVE in KARMA, LOL, and that gives me great peace. I believe that GOD will eventually have HIS fingers on the scales and "alternative facts" will NOT be accepted as an excuse for poor behavior. Previously, I hadn't called trump ANYTHING other than what I experienced PERSONALLY while he was attempting to steal property in NJ.(he failed, as he OFTEN does). Soon I am sure I will be able to call him thief with impunity. And I believe there is much more to come. HOW does a president STEAL money from the veterans of his own country and still claim to "honor" those patriots? How does one accept a deferment from military service for BONE SPURS for God's sake, belittle a veteran who spent five years in a POW camp. You know, Nixon did some good things in office, but he is most famously remembered for his quote "I AM NOT A CROOK" Many believed that, too, but HISTORY goes to the victor and that is a picture he can't undo.
mild_mannered_super_hero : are a trump hater, why is that so hard for you to admit?? tell me again how trump steals money...the same guy who donates his ENTIRE salary to charity. i can tell you what has happened since he was elected jobs are at RECORD highs,stock market HISTORIC highs, i made more money in the market since trump was elected than the ENTIRE 8 years of obama, consumer confidence is off the charts, oil, gas and COAL are alive and well without the fear of "carbon tax" and excessive regulations, foriegn countrys are treating us with respect. i personally find it funny that most of the things you accuse trump of, the clintons actually did. Bill clinton being the only convicted felon {draft evasion} ever elected president....he was pardoned guessed it jimmy carter,you may want to google that one. just admit you are a trump dont care about facts, you dont care about results, you just want to bad mouth trump. i would normally welcome a battle of wits.....but you are unarmed :) mmsh
dadnabbit : ONE MORE TIME: I am NOT a trump hater. He is SO NOT WORTH expending that energy. I do HATE his way of doing business. I love AMERICA more than this man who believes he is above the law. He had to be embarrassed into actually donating the one half of his first years' salary and is waiting for "decisions" as to WHERE to donate the rest, AND he had to be embarrassed into donating the money $1M--he promised to the veterans...But he has no trouble STEALING taxpayer dollars to play golf at his own clubs, or STEALING money donated for charity in order to buy a painting of himself or to send his sons on safari. The business he touted in Indiana as "saved" has CLOSED, and two coal mines in Pa that were promised his "help" have filed for bankruptcy and ceased operations. Have YOU ever met trump--I have. Do YOU know anyone who worked for him? I DO. Do YOU know anyone who did work for him and went unpaid? I DO. Do YOU know anyone whose land he tried to STEAL through eminent domain? I DO. Furthermore, I'm NOT defending the Clintons, THEY are NOT in office, trump is. But that is the go to for trump followers, defer to some other crime committed by some other person as if it makes his own wrongdoings somehow less wrong. Clinton's actions with Lewinsky were reprehensible and I have ALWAYS said so. But so is trump's attitude of entitlement towards women because he is a "star". And since you seem to want to compare draft dodgers, at least Clinton didn't claim that "his Vietnam war was VD" like trump did--HOW DISGUSTING!!! I don't HAVE to bad mouth trump, but I reserve the right to speak out on his actions. The first amendment grants me that right. trump LIES,pretty much about EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING, ALWAYS, in his attempts to fit his narrative of the moment. And that is SAD for a world leader and humiliating for AMERICA. Another typical trump follower tactic is name calling. I don't have to be witty like you think--:)--you are. I use Truth, honesty, and facts, as opposed to LIES, dishonesty and alternative facts. You are entitled to your opinion, but it doesn't make it any more AMERICAN than mine. dadnabbit
dadnabbit : PS, I'm not interested in the respect of nations run by the likes of putin, ergadon, duterte, and kim. I don't consider their actions respectful of humanity and so their "respect" for America is meaningless. And No.Korea has a long dubious history of agreements with America, still in force even as they built up their nuclear power. HONESTLY how do you believe in someone who is constantly caught in lies, whether it be a man or a nation?
iMacG5 : We’ll, a year and a half later I’m not sure whether I’m sorry, disappointed, disillusioned or just not smart enough to understand what’s going on. I’ve had some education; mostly math and sciences. But I also squeezed in a few psych, sociology, philosophy, World and Western civ, economics, theology and political science courses. I worked with my hands, worked with my head, presided over a manufacturing labor union, managed a human resources department and, mainly, paid attention to all that I could while attempting to understand everything. I couldn’t, can’t and never will understand too much of anything and that's without getting into creation, evolution and stuff like that. I have trouble understanding how some friends, relatives and neighbors perceive the current status of the USA so differently from me and each other. It hurts to read my fellow ostomates attempting to justify their loyalties and discredit another’s with anger and demeaning characterizations. I guess whatever I learned over all these years just never prepared me for the reality I’m experiencing. All that being stated, I respect all who took the time and energy to offer opinions. I may strongly disagree with some of the opinions and my opinion of the person offering that opinion might change but I still respect that person so long as they’re not hurting others. Dabnabbit, I believe we’re on the same page. Sincerely, Mike
dadnabbit : iMacG5, I too understand being sorry, disillusioned, AND disappointed--BUT you ARE smart enough and open minded enough to understand what is going on! One of the hardest things for people to "get" as to our positions in life is perception. We tend to build our opinions according to how immediate situations affect us individually. We check our homes, health, lifestyle, religious beliefs and pocketbooks, to determine what we are WILLING to believe. But no matter how strongly we believe in something, we are heartbroken when we cannot convince EVERYONE ELSE that OUR beliefs are the "right" beliefs. Frustration arises when we see what WE believe to be incontrovertible facts being ignored by someone of a differing opinion. Name calling and vitriolic speech will not ever change the other party's opinion. Unfortunately it does fuel the fire for many in the struggle to make a choice. There really does seem to be a growing trend towards selfishness as well as self importance. We seem more willing to find even ADMITTED wrongs OK, even permissible, as long as there is someone else we can point to as being a worse example. NO ONE is supposed to be above the rule of law, yet we do seem to find a way to forgive and excuse the wrongdoing of some while expecting to hold others to a different standard. It scares me that we all seem to have dug in our heels. ALMOST EVERY DAY there are more examples of wrongdoing in our own backyard -- by members of both parties. Everyday I see hard fought freedoms being challenged, like freedom of the press. You don't have to agree with EVERYTHING but EVERYONE has the right to have opinions spoken. I do fear that mmsh is quite likely right in his assumption that our current president may well win again in 2020 unless something changes. I would HAPPILY AND WILLINGLY change my opinion of what is happening in America, if there was just some semblance of accountability for the actions I am witnessing. BUT seeing the irresponsibility of actions like flotus wearing a jacket stating "I don't really care, do you?", while supposedly on a "humanitarian" visit to children makes me believe that things are getting worse, not better. To claim no message was meant to be sent is just silly. The lady has an entire wardrobe to choose from and at best it was a foolish, insensitive choice. But making immigration the "cause of the moment " will NOT win the election for the democrats. There are too many other issues scaring Americans, like losing Medicare and/or Social Security. I will continue to hope that change will happen. And I will continue to vote for what more and more often appears to be the "lesser of two evils" rather than the best candidate.
iMacG5 : Hey Dadnabbit, please explain the "rnl" and the "rn" and forgive me for mispelling your name. Thanks, Mike
dadnabbit : Mike, The "rn" appeared after an edit, I don't know from where...The only thing I could figure out is that when it appeared I had begun the post from an email notification, stopped midstream for about 15 minutes and returned to finish the post and I did not notice it before finally posting. I only noticed it after re-reading the post days later. Sorry, but it was not intentional on my part and I'm not sure if it is supposed to mean something or was just an unaware typo on my part...?
iMacG5 : Thanks D. I feel less cyberstupid now. Mike